Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures. Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.

[Satina]

DC2 has just started reception and we were excited for all the new experiences the next year would bring. I'm worried however that I've got off on the wrong foot with the new teacher.

Sorry, this is long:

When DC1 was in the same class she flew through reading books and was known to be a very strong reader. However she eventually hit a barrier and her progression stalled. School weren't bothered as she was still ahead of expected for her age but I, who listened to her read daily noticed problems. Specifically that she was guessing unfamiliar words which sometimes meant she completely misunderstood the meaning of the passage she'd just read.

I'd never helped a child learn to read before, so I did extensive research into how to help her and went back to basics of focusing on decoding unfamiliar words and eventually she flew.

Since DC1 was in reception the school has replaced their book scheme to one that's supposed to be more decodable.

I was eager to avoid the same problems occurring for DC2 and was optimistic that the new book scheme would mean decoding would be encouraged rather than guessing.

I was therefore surprised when the very first comment in DC's reading diary was 'DC has been encouraged to use the pictures to help guess unfamiliar words'.

All of the reading I did around the subject, when DC1 was learning suggests this is bad practice.

E.g. The Rose Report says:

"However, if beginner readers, for
example, are encouraged to infer from
pictures the word they have to decode
this may lead to their not realising that
they need to focus on the printed
word.They may, therefore, not use their
developing phonic knowledge. It may
also lead to diluting the focused
phonics teaching that is necessary for
securing accurate word reading.Thus,
where beginner readers are taught
habitually to infer the word they need
from pictures they are far less likely to
apply their developing phonic
knowledge and skills to print. During
the course of the review, several
examples were seen of beginners
being encouraged to infer from
pictures the word they did not
immediately recognise from the text."

I asked for a quick chat with the teacher who rang me at home. I explained that I was very happy with everything in reception so far but that I'd really prefer DC to be encouraged to decode unfamiliar words and not guess. She thought I was trying to push for DC to have more complex books and spent some time telling me why she thought this would be detrimental. I clarified that I definitely was not pushing for harder material and in fact would have preferred an easier, decodable book.

I said I wasn't expecting any changes to the way the class is taught as a whole, but wanted DD to have books she could decode with her current knowledge (which I'm happy to provide if they don't have enough) and to be encouraged not to use alternative methods until she was secure in her decoding.

Teacher then spent some time telling me the importance of using other methods as some children struggle with phonics and it helps them and that it's important for children to learn through repetition and using other cues aswell as decoding.

This is where I'm worried I overstepped the mark as I said that I appreciate what you're saying but all my research suggests otherwise, which I know must be really annoying to be told as a professional by someone who is not a professional in that area.

I said I'm happy to provide all my references which the teacher said she didn't need.

Ultimately, all I wanted was for my DC to become secure in her decoding before other methods are used, so as not to confuse her.

Teacher has now agreed to this with DD, but I'm feeling so guilty and anxious about having said anything in the first place.

I should have kept my mouth shut and just focussed on decoding at home and let them do their own thing at school.

Do you think there's anything I can do to improve matters and reassure the teacher that I'm not going to be a PITA parent all year?

word recognition

Why do they have to recognise the word???? Why can't they just decode it?

Pictures aid understanding of the decoded word, of course. Which is why decoding isn't reading - I can decode Welsh and Latin, for example, but I can't understand either. But they shouldn't be used INSTEAD of decoding - they should be used AFTER decoding to add understanding.

cantkeepawayforever

I don’t think they have to recognise it. But if they do, they don’t need to decode it. That’s how I read, that’s how I learnt to read. It works for some.

I've been fascinated by this whole thread, but it's made me realise I've no real idea what phonics is or how my children were taught to read! They can, so it's fine, I'm just clueless it seems

cantkeepawayforever

Going to have to agree to disagree here, I’m afraid. I think phonics works to teach decoding. I think a variety of methods can be employed to aid reading. We need both.

First of the new Ofsted schedule reports with compulsory reading focus - download from side menu on right (broken link).

www.stonebroom.derbyshire.sch.uk/about-us/ofsted-report

It works for some.

I do find this really frustrating.

Yes, it works for some - i think 80% of children learn to read using mixed methods, with 20% failed by them.

95%plus learn to read using synthetic phonics if taught decently - might be more if taught well. That means less than 5% need 'something else' - i think the EEF suggests that the evidence fro phonics based teaching tails off for those who cannot read well by 10, so other methods should be used for this 'tail' at an older age. However the needs of those

We need both.

You need decoding, plus comprehension, plus vocabulary teaching, plus enjoyment of reading.

How to teach the decoding bit reliably? Phonics. Not Guessing with pictures - which research shows makes weaker readers over-reliant on picture guessing and IS NOT DECODING.

Where's mrz when we need her? Or, if anyone remembers the old Beeb discussion boards, Charliemouse?

i think the EEF suggests that the evidence fro phonics based teaching tails off for those who cannot read well by 10years

I think that's because generally the subject knowledge of the teachers also tails off by then.

Look at all the success stories of adult learners who finally learn to read. How? Phonics. By skilled teachers, who for one reason or another they just have not come across before.

Satina
Someone asked about what other professions would have people who aren't in that profession telling them how to dot their job.
I gave examples of other times I'm aware of armchair Googlers leading to people thinking they know more than professionals.

Unfortunately as you say, you aren't a teacher so ultimately you may be able to say "I read X", but there's a number of issues with educational research and it's application, validity and transferability into the classroom. Teachers with a training in educational research are aware of this.
Being able to read research does not translate to being able to tell a professional how to do their job, otherwise me (and anyone else with research degrees) would be qualified to comment on a whole load of professions outside our area of expertise.

You're not wrong to want to talk to teacher and have a chat about how they're teaching reading. You are, in my opinion, to think that because you can read some research that makes you qualified to make recommendations to people on how to do their jobs (and for what it's worth I feel the same about think tanks, consultants and other people who think being able to read some stuff equals ability to tell people how to do their job).

How much misinformation is there on here about phonics?
And from teachers!
And an EP FFS.
You are completely correct. Children should only be using phonics. English is 99% decodable and the other words are borrowed from other languages.
Maybe a slightly more indirect approach - but I tried that with my DS and he didn't learn any reading at school for a year.
We're doing a bit better with DD with "I think she's accidentally come home with a book she can't decode".
If you're not happy you can always get your own decodable books or we use Reading Chest.

Let's try and summon @norestformrz

I think that's because generally the subject knowledge of the teachers also tails off by then.

That's a completely fair point - and one perhaps borne out by posts here too. I was just referring to 'what the research currently says' - it doesn't suggest why.

And maizieD, Rafa, MrsKCastle.

MaizieD is a v skilled ex-secondary phonics teacher who taught many, many non-readers by unteaching unhelpful strategies like picture guessing and taught decoding using phonics so they could finally read.

I remember Charliemouse, cantkeepaway

cantkeepawayforever
I also agree on phonics as a teacher.

I just the OP has handled the situation in a way that is misjudged and patronising, which to be has only been confirmed by the whole "but I have experience in reading research" attitude.

They're not an educational researcher, nor are they a teacher, therefore they should be wanting to have a chat with the teacher about how their child is getting on and what their child is doing as a parent, not drawing up what they've decided should be done and then saying they can send their research to the teacher as if they're some sort of expert.

A sensible chat about what's going on, more context on the comment, exploration of phonics approaches in school etc would have been a much more fruitful and less patronising/confrontational approach in my opinion.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I’m a teacher and I think the OP is right! Children should have decodable books in reception! Schools have to publish information about their phonics and reading schemes so it might have been a good place to start by asking about these.

Hard when the teacher is that much of a numpty and has sole responsibility for the way their beginner learning experience is enough to turn out.

Should you let her actively damage your child's learning (there's no way of knowing in advance which children be one of the 20ish % who will struggle and actually step backwards because they are taught mixed methods which confuse them), or risk upsetting the teacher? Hmm, it's a tough one

I have been in that same position, along with many others, and sympathise deeply.

OP I think your point was valid but raised in a way that probably pissed the teacher off a bit. Redeem yourself with a box of cakes and they'll forgive you.

*about to turn out

OP, your hearts in the right place and I totally agree that children aren't helped by being encouraged to use pictures to guess at words.

Reading is made up of 2 elements: decoding and comprehension.

Pictures are brilliant for aiding comprehension and enjoyment. I'd look at them with a child either before trying to read the words on a page or after having read the words.

What I would never do is encourage a child to break off from trying to decode a word in order to look at the picture and guess.

Virtually all words in the English language are either phonetically decodable (despite what some posters have said, English IS a phonetic language - it isn't character based like Chinese) or follow spelling rules.

If a child has a book with words that they can't YET decode then the book is beyond their current phonic knowledge and skills. If it was just a occasional high interest word then I'd simply supply the word. If there were too many then I'd change the book.

Having said that you were a bit OTT with the teacher and quoting your research is a bit like teaching your grandmother to suck eggs.

If I'd had a parent approach me like that I would have been completely unprepared and taken aback and that would have made me feel rather defensive.

Maybe try and catch the teacher at a quiet time (eg end of the day once other children have been collected) and explain that you didn't intend to come on so strong, just a bit anxious about dc starting school, want to do your best for her, would like to work with the teacher etc etc

The responses here are making me really angry!

OP has had some difficulties with this issue with her first child, so because she is a bloody good parent she got very very informed. She read research, she investigated methods and she worked hard to improve the problem which has benefitted her child.

She now sees that her second child is being taught in a way thats not backed up by the research she’s read, so she’s absolutely right to question it and have a discussion.

You don’t need a qualification in something to be an expert. After 25 years of being an endometriosis patient, and having researched and read everything I can on the subject, I know significantly more about the disease than any GP I’ve ever seen. I don’t know more about medicine, but I know more about this particular condition. OP is not saying she knows more about education than this teacher, but she is very informed in this area.

You can’t win, can you? You see comments
all the time about kids who are behind with reading etc and how their parents must not be arsed to read to them. Actively inform yourself and you’re “that parent”. Bunch of bollocks.

You were right OP and I’m sorry you’re feeling anxious and I’m sure the responses here aren’t helping. FWIW, the best professionals I’ve encountered understand they are not omnipotent and occasionally someone might know more about a specific topic than they do, or at least have information which will help them to do their jobs better. It’s only the shit ones who think their qualification makes their knowledge beyond reproach.

Feenie
I'd have raised it, but would have taken the time to have a discussion about the comments and ask more about phonics teaching in class etc as a first approach.

The whole "I have research and you should do... I can send you it" is quite abrasive to me. But then again, I tend to find that I find that sort of approach to raising issues and/or concerns to be quite off in a range of situations.

It sounds like they're using the KTC phonics method which is what they use at DDs school, they use mantras to embed a method that the kids can remember.

Said in a sing song voice and with motions:

"Look at the letters" - kids point to their eye
"Make the sounds" - kids point to their mouth
"Blend the sounds" - kids make a swiping motion
"Confirm with pictures"

DD is now in year 1 and doing really well with reading without pictures so seems to have worked well.