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Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures. Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.

323 replies

Satina · 02/10/2019 13:03

DC2 has just started reception and we were excited for all the new experiences the next year would bring. I'm worried however that I've got off on the wrong foot with the new teacher.

Sorry, this is long:

When DC1 was in the same class she flew through reading books and was known to be a very strong reader. However she eventually hit a barrier and her progression stalled. School weren't bothered as she was still ahead of expected for her age but I, who listened to her read daily noticed problems. Specifically that she was guessing unfamiliar words which sometimes meant she completely misunderstood the meaning of the passage she'd just read.

I'd never helped a child learn to read before, so I did extensive research into how to help her and went back to basics of focusing on decoding unfamiliar words and eventually she flew.

Since DC1 was in reception the school has replaced their book scheme to one that's supposed to be more decodable.

I was eager to avoid the same problems occurring for DC2 and was optimistic that the new book scheme would mean decoding would be encouraged rather than guessing.

I was therefore surprised when the very first comment in DC's reading diary was 'DC has been encouraged to use the pictures to help guess unfamiliar words'.

All of the reading I did around the subject, when DC1 was learning suggests this is bad practice.

E.g. The Rose Report says:

"However, if beginner readers, for
example, are encouraged to infer from
pictures the word they have to decode
this may lead to their not realising that
they need to focus on the printed
word.They may, therefore, not use their
developing phonic knowledge. It may
also lead to diluting the focused
phonics teaching that is necessary for
securing accurate word reading.Thus,
where beginner readers are taught
habitually to infer the word they need
from pictures they are far less likely to
apply their developing phonic
knowledge and skills to print. During
the course of the review, several
examples were seen of beginners
being encouraged to infer from
pictures the word they did not
immediately recognise from the text."

I asked for a quick chat with the teacher who rang me at home. I explained that I was very happy with everything in reception so far but that I'd really prefer DC to be encouraged to decode unfamiliar words and not guess. She thought I was trying to push for DC to have more complex books and spent some time telling me why she thought this would be detrimental. I clarified that I definitely was not pushing for harder material and in fact would have preferred an easier, decodable book.

I said I wasn't expecting any changes to the way the class is taught as a whole, but wanted DD to have books she could decode with her current knowledge (which I'm happy to provide if they don't have enough) and to be encouraged not to use alternative methods until she was secure in her decoding.

Teacher then spent some time telling me the importance of using other methods as some children struggle with phonics and it helps them and that it's important for children to learn through repetition and using other cues aswell as decoding.

This is where I'm worried I overstepped the mark as I said that I appreciate what you're saying but all my research suggests otherwise, which I know must be really annoying to be told as a professional by someone who is not a professional in that area.

I said I'm happy to provide all my references which the teacher said she didn't need.

Ultimately, all I wanted was for my DC to become secure in her decoding before other methods are used, so as not to confuse her.

Teacher has now agreed to this with DD, but I'm feeling so guilty and anxious about having said anything in the first place.

I should have kept my mouth shut and just focussed on decoding at home and let them do their own thing at school.

Do you think there's anything I can do to improve matters and reassure the teacher that I'm not going to be a PITA parent all year?

OP posts:
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LolaSmiles · 11/10/2019 07:06

however fully admit that I handled this discussion wrong with the teacher. I do really wonder what the best way to approach this would have been. I'm thinking probably just to keep quiet and do my own thing at home
No need to keep quiet, just approach things in a better way.
Having a general chat about the feedback, how it links to their overall phonics approaches etc ask questions etc, all reasonable.
Going in saying I've don't my research, what I've read says... You're doing it wrong, I can give you my research etc comes across as arsey.
Often it's not what is said/done, but the way it is said/done.

Having a general chat about things and finding more out in a non accusatory manner will generally give a better picture and a better relationship to follow up issues when needed.

EmilyStar · 11/10/2019 07:06

Jenster03 sure, because loads of schools are undersubscribed and have spare spaces for extra pupils mid year!
(That’s certainly not the case where I live)

It’s not unreasonable for OP to expect that her children’s school will follow current best practices for teaching reading, or to bring it up with the teacher when the teacher isn't following best practices.

Greggers2017 · 11/10/2019 07:19

Wow your little girl has only just started receptionZ let her be a child for goodness sake. Parents like you are why I left teaching. You are an absolute nightmare. You aren't a concerned parent at all, you are an interfering busy body. The schools reading scheme will have been tried and tested. It will work it will not have been approved. Let them get on with it and if there is a problem with your child's progress after Christmas when they are all settled in, that's when you approach the teacher.
I think you need to take a step back and stop thinking you are better than the teacher just because you have done research. Do you do it with illnesses when you visit the GP?
I hope you are labelled "that parent". Teachers have so many more important things to deal with.

Norestformrz · 11/10/2019 07:34

Wow! OP I feel I must apologise for some teachers on this thread.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 11/10/2019 08:06

The GP thing is nonsense. For a start mist doctors will encourage patients to go away and research conditions/treatments and ask questions. We (mostly) moved on from a model where the patient just does as the doctor says because they’re the doctor ages ago. The ‘informed’ part of informed consent ages ago.
Secondly, if my doctor isn’t following clinical guidelines/best practice in my treatment, there are several avenues open to me. I’m not sure there is a teaching equivalent of PALs. I’m not sure teachers would be happy if there was.

prh47bridge · 11/10/2019 08:09

The schools reading scheme will have been tried and tested. It will work it will not have been approved

It will work for around 80% of the pupils. However, if they did what they are required to do and used synthetic phonics alone they would achieve 95%+ success. So no, the OP is not an absolute nightmare. The school is failing a proportion of its pupils and the OP is trying to do something about it. Good for her.

Satina · 11/10/2019 08:18

I find it interesting that I have been told on this thread, more than once, that parents like me are the reason teachers are leaving teaching.

I would hope not and am usually very supportive of the teachers and respect the job that they do. I couldn't do it!

My understanding was that teachers are leaving the profession as they're overworked, underpaid, having to keep up with the whims of politicians who make political rather than evidence-based changes, losing budgets for TAs, changes to the system meaning more children with additional needs are in mainstream classrooms (brilliant), but without providing additional support for the teachers and the children, wanting to do the best for the children and not having the time and resources to do it etc.

There are many parallels between my own job and teaching and there are also people leaving my profession in large numbers but I've never heard "customers questioning our decisions" cited as a reason. I welcome discussion about the evidence base behind my practice. I've also never heard any of my colleagues getting upset about their customers being questioning and informed. I say this with the proviso that a quick Google search is not the same as having read and weighed up relevant research.

Again, I realise that I did it in the wrong way. In my defence, at school drop off I'd asked for a quick chat, which the teacher had said we could do at pick-up time. I was prepared for an informal 5 minutes about preferring DC to get more solid in her decoding before being asked to guess, to take place at the end of the day. I was caught unawares by the phone call in the middle of the day and as soon as I mentioned reading teacher became defensive. She spent quite some time explaining why she wasn't giving DC harder books. It was only after she'd finished this long explanation that I was able to say that I wasn't actually asking for harder books, quite the opposite. I'd have been very happy with wordless books coming home. DD has a great imagination and would have loved telling the story in her own words from pictures. I'd have been very happy with page 1: "cat" page 2: "cat sat" page three: "mat" etc. It was the "look at the first sound then use the pictures to guess as you haven't been taught the sounds for the rest of the of the word yet" that I objected to.

Those saying "it's very early in reception, you should wait until later in the term to question", I hear you. I did agonise over whether I should either wait until later or not say anything at all. I talked myself into it because I thought it would be a quick breezy discussion and wanted the "guessing" to stop early so it wasn't already rooted in my DCs mind as the way to read. By Christmas in reception, DC1 had rocketed through reading bands using this method and it was so hard to train her back into sounding out rather than guessing once she hit a barrier and kept reading words incorrectly once the books increased in complexity and it was no longer possible to guess.

OP posts:
drspouse · 11/10/2019 17:21

Here's the massively thrilling (not) look and say book sent home with my DD.
Needless to say we are using our own phonics books.

Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures.  Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.
Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures.  Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.
Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures.  Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.
drspouse · 11/10/2019 17:21

Rest of book.

Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures.  Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.
Reception DC encouraged to guess words from pictures.  Afraid I've got off on the wrong foot with teacher.
LolaSmiles · 11/10/2019 17:56

OP
I think claims that people leave teaching due to parents like you are way over the top in my opinion.

I do think, as you've acknowledged, that you went about things the wrong way, but you've been really open to that.

It's totally reasonable to want to or need to question decisions by school where appropriate.

EmilyStar · 12/10/2019 07:19

@Norestformrz

That link doesn’t work?

Norestformrz · 12/10/2019 07:52

Oh! It does for me 🤔

MaidenMotherCrone · 12/10/2019 08:22

Op, looking at the bigger picture I think you are looking for validation, from school, that you are an excellent parent.

drspouse · 12/10/2019 08:35

No, I think she's looking for her child to be taught properly.

Greggers2017 · 12/10/2019 08:47

@drspouse oxford reading tree is how children have been taught to read for years. I learnt to read with them, so did my 6 siblings. My own 2 eldest two children did and were both free readers by the age of 7-8.
Leave the teaching to the teachers or go back to uni and become one. You kind f parents make a teachers job way more difficult that it needs to be. 🙄
Everyone can research on the internet. If you look hard enough you can find vaccines for children are bad or the 9/11 attack's were a conspiracy. Doesn't mean it is right.
If the way they were teaching is wrong we would have a country full of illiterate people.

Norestformrz · 12/10/2019 08:56

"oxford reading tree is how children have been taught to read for years." Actually its a product of the 1980s and had a relatively short shelf life apart from a few schools that have refused to invest in evidence based reading books.

drspouse · 12/10/2019 10:22

That book is completely pointless for my DD. School phonics lessons are working on something entirely different.

Feenie · 12/10/2019 10:50

If the way they were teaching is wrong we would have a country full of illiterate people

Such an ignorant comment. Nearly 20% of children don't meet the standards of the phonics check. Nearly 20% of children don't meet the requirements of the KS2 reading test. One in five adults is functionally illiterate.

fullfact.org/news/are-one-five-british-adults-illiterate/#targetText="Britain%20has%20up%20to%20eight,label%20or%20use%20a%20chequebook".

IsobelRae23 · 12/10/2019 13:48

I’m so glad I left the Primary school teaching profession.

Still use my skills but with adults in a different context now- surprisingly psychiatrists, psychologist, nurses etc don’t argue nowhere near as half as much about being in the right. They actually trust my knowledge!

Feenie · 12/10/2019 14:00

You're in a medical profession and you're happy to be right 80% of the time?!

MrsKCastle · 12/10/2019 14:12

OP, just wanted to add my voice to the many other teachers on this thread who have reassured you that you are in the right. The school should be teaching phonics for decoding, NOT mixed methods. You were right to ask that they actually do their statutory duty for your own child. I am shocked by the responses on the thread saying that you should basically mind your own business. It is your business, it is your child.

I t just baffles me how many parents and teachers are completely set against the use of the best, scientifically proven method.

EmilyStar · 12/10/2019 14:24

@Greggers2017

Teaching reading through using phonics is the method endorsed by the government because its considered best practice.

It’s completely ludicrous to compare teaching reading by phonics with anti-vaccination or conspiracy theories.

PolarTeddy · 12/10/2019 23:27

OP, I don't think you should apologise, although I empathise with how you feel.

You recognised a problem (namely that the teacher isn't following NC) and when the teacher didn't seem to get it you referenced the evidence base. It might have been more effective to simply point them back to NC, and I can understand why you are worried about being labelled "that parent" (because I would feel the same!) but unfortunately I think the problem here lies with the teacher and not you and you have been as tactful as possible.

It's probably for the best that teachers on this thread have left if it's really because of parents "like you", and that's a shame.

I'm not a teacher and nor do I have DC of reception age but I believe your analysis of the research is robust and it is telling that a majority of teachers make a compelling case on this thread that you are correct. Without their validation I can see that research in isolation is not always the full picture as PPs have said.