Two school runs, not working!

[drspouse]

Last year our DCs' school which is 5 minutes walk from our house told us that DS (just started Y3) could no longer continue there. He has behavioural needs and they felt he wasn't learning.
While we felt that they could have done a lot more for him, and that they had made up their minds that he wasn't going to flourish, and he was NOT happy about moving school, we did not want him at a school that wasn't prepared to help him.
He's moved to a small village primary school 15 minutes' drive away and so far it's going well.
The school is oversubscribed and has no place for DD, and as he is working with younger children some of the time, it wouldn't be good for her to go there as she'd be in the same class as him some of the time anyway (she's in Y1, and he works in the combined Y1/Y2 class for part of the time).
But the school runs are a nightmare.

In the morning DD is booked into breakfast club every day. Probably 3 or 4 days a week DH WFH and we could in theory do two school runs. But so far we've tried to keep to the regular routine of DD up to breakfast club, DS walks with whoever is taking her, and then DS in the car to school.

DD isn't happy - she doesn't want to dash out the door early for breakfast, she wants a relaxed breakfast at home.
DS isn't happy - he doesn't want to walk up to school in the rain with DD when he doesn't even go there any more.
And we're not happy - we don't want the DCs unhappy!
This morning it took 20 minutes to get DD out of the door. DH suggested taking her later (so 1st breakfast at home, then 2nd breakfast at breakfast club) but if we put that off for 30 minutes and then she resists going out for 20 minutes, we will be late for DS school.

End of the day is not much better - DD in theory gets out 20 minutes before DS so we can take her home and then pick him up - but DH who has mainly done these days reports that the let out time is so variable that he's going to be late sooner or later, and it's a massive rush.
So we're putting one or other of them in after school clubs most days, which again DD isn't happy about - she just wants Mummy or Daddy to pick her up.
And I want to be able to talk to her friends' parents, arrange playdates etc. I have 3 families' numbers but they are all very busy/tired/non-responsive and poor DD keeps nagging me to go to X's house.

Previously someone suggested a CM but this doesn't solve the problem of DD, quite reasonably, wanting to have her breakfast at home like her brother/her parents/a normal person.

It also doesn't help with pickup as I don't think any of the CMs will be closer than school to our house - so she might as well just go to after school club! There was a lovely CM with a DC in DS' former class who actually walks past our house but she has closed her business.

Sorry you are having to deal with this.

How is DD doing at school? Are there strong reasons for her staying there?

Regarding pick up, it sounds like the key reason why you can't pick up one after the other, and therefore need one of them to be in after-school-club, lies in the school not sticking to their official 'home time'.

I think this is something you might be able to argue with the school over. Get them to release DD on time every day. At our (often less-than-helpful) school they do find all sorts of creative solutions to accommodate those pupils who have to leave 'on time' e.g. because of having to rush to an extracurricular activity.
After all, you wouldn't be asking for anything special, just that they release DD at the time they said they would.
And since the whole situation is an effect of them effectively kicking your DS out, you could put the ball in their court - 'Due to DS being at a different school now, I will be needing to pick DD up at home time exactly every day. I am sure you can find a way to make sure this will be possible.'

Regarding mornings, is there the possibility for DD to have breakfast at home and then join breakfast club later, just for the 'childcare' element rather than the breakfast element? So, you all have breakfast at home together, walk to school, drop DD, walk back home, drive DS to school. Would that alleviate the situation? It wouldn't be perfect (DD still has to leave earlier, DS still has to walk to his old school and back) but maybe improved (DD gets to have breakfast at home, DS doesn't have to leave the house to go with DD quite so early).

I get what you are saying about trying to have a constant, predictable daily routine. But I feel that you can still offer the children to do things differently occasionally. E.g. on days when it is actually raining, and both of you happen to be available, you can offer them both to have separate school runs as a 'treat' and no-one needs to go early etc.
(We usually cycle, whatever the weather. But occasionally when the weather is horrible and an alternative is available e.g. DP happens to be WFH, we offer them to go by car. They know what the usual routine is but enjoy the occasional 'treat' of having a few more minutes at home and going by car.)

Thanks for asking, and no, DD is not doing particularly well at school either. She can't move to DS' school though because there is no room and because of the joint classes situation (it would be even worse for her to have to be in a class with DS for some lessons). She doesn't want to leave her friends, either, of course.

I am going to start to press DD' school to let her out on time (it would be easier if they let her out 5 minutes early via the office, rather than on time via the classroom when they are talking to the children and the other parents are hanging about, but that's their problem to solve).

DH thinks we should take her to breakfast club half an hour later but I am really worried we will then be 30 minutes PLUS 20 minutes that it takes her/DS to argue about not wanting to go. Which will leave us late for DS as well.

He also wants to just not send her on mornings when she doesn't HAVE to go, without warning breakfast club in advance. But we desperately need to keep the club on side (it's also the after school club and the holiday club and we need to send DS still in the holidays, and it's them that keeps ringing us at 4pm to tell us DS needs collecting as he's losing the plot, so we do not want to annoy them even mildly).

I do think that once we are in the routine of going all together, it will be easier to say "ah, let's skip today" but at the moment our routine isn't settled and it's a new wrench for her (and all of us!) to get out of the house early every single morning!

When you moved your son was it done formally or informally- were admissions informed about what your ds old school were saying? You've really got yourself into a pickle in terms of logistics. if your ds has Sen that are significant enough that a school are asking him to leave I would have applied for an EHCP and not moved him at this stage until it was formalised or got some agreement around home to school transport.

He has an EHCP and the only way he has a place at the (oversubscribed) new school is that it is named on his EHCP.
We could ask for a taxi for him but given he has to be in after school club, this would be mornings only (or at least it would be every morning and not every evening). Taxis don't pick up from after school club. We might consider a taxi from school on days he comes out with the other children, but the mornings are still more of a problem because we do need to be able to talk to his teacher too (plus obviously it would be nice to get to know the parents of HIS friends) and he, like DD, needs the security of having us there as well.

The way the old school were talking about him, we didn't want him to stay a moment longer. We had 2 taster days in summer which confused him frankly but we only heard we had the new place 10 days before the end of term.

Frankly I'd say that less essential is:
DD getting to school on time every day and staying till the end every day

But I doubt the schools would agree.

And I would agree with the school. The first 10 minutes of each day can be crucial in setting the class up ready for learning, especially in KS1. Your DD could miss out on skills practise, focussed input and important social interactions every day. Not to mention the disruption to the class and extra work for the teacher having to catch her up.

Leaving on time is another issue. You need to bring it up with the school so that they ensure the children are released promptly or, as you mention, DD is ready at the office for collection.

(Oh and frankly I'm surprised the new school agreed to take him based on what the EHCP said. I wouldn't have! But they are very kind).

I agree that pressing the school to release her on time is a really sensible move (and an utterly reasonable ask).

With breakfast club, to what extent is she the sort of child you can reason with? Can you sit her down and say 'I'm happy for you to leave for BC later but you have to prove to me that you can get ready and leave with no fuss'. If she does you can start to leave a bit later, and if she mucks about then the following day it's back to leaving early.

Re keeping BC onside- how late is your schedule arranged? Would you be able to email them on a Friday to let them know about the following week? I agree though that you should try and get the new routine established first: when she's properly settled she'll be in a better position to cope with variation in the routine.

She's a very young 5 unfortunately - reason is not in her repertoire yet!
DS is actually more mature and (if he didn't have a meltdown, which is a big IF) would deal with that better, but we don't have as much flexibility with him. For example, he will charge up to school and dash back down because he knows if he doesn't mess about he gets another episode of Octonauts before he has to set off. DD would just lie down on the floor and cry even with that kind of promise!

Once we are in the swing of it, you are right, we may be able to say "OK, one day off this week" without it causing total refusal the next day. DD can't quite work out which day it is yet but breakfast club would at least be grateful if we released a day for another child, a week in advance.

Can you advertise on childcare website for a mother’s help to facilitate the mornings and maybe a couple of afternoons a week? They could drop off and pick up DD, someone who would maybe be able to host a play date at home for her too?

Might suit a student, or a retiree...

You seem to have an awful lot of non-negotiables (all for good reason, not suggesting you do not!) and something needs to give somewhere either with work or more expensive childcare solution, I guess.

I don't suppose you would consider an au pair?
My neighbour always had an au pair and it made her life manageable.

Do you work in the office every day? Is there no scope for changing your hours so that you can make a pick-up every week for DS, thereby seeing the teachers then instead of in the morning?

If your DS got a taxi to school every morning, and you dropped DD and went direct?

I just think you’re trying to achieve too many impossible things before breakfast, as Alice might say - you can’t be present at both schools meeting teachers and supporting each child and getting to know their friends whilst also needing to work FT in an office.

Push the school to let her out at least first in the line. We have that arrangement with my youngest's school as they know she struggles to walk at any decent pace and won't get round to the eldest's school in time otherwise (infant/junior on different sites). They also make sure she's supported in getting ready to leave so we don't need to go back in for seven jumper retrieval missions either.

Both of mine are struggling with a routine change to double school runs - that part is natural and part of adjusting, without any SN taken into the equation.

I also have a noticeboard that I write down which days are breakfast club, after school club or which parent is picking who up on so they know what to expect - but mine love breakfast club as they get a better choice of breakfast than the bowl of cereal and bit of fruit that they do at home on a morning! (They get hot chocolate and stuff)

Can you cycle or use scooters to make it quicker and more fun to get DD and DS if he has to accompany you there and back?

You need outside help to make this work. A childminder for your daughter or an au pair. You can't be in two places at once.

Agree that either work schedule needs to change or you need outside help.

My DH and I have both had to go part time so we can share pick ups and drop offs for our autistic DS from his school so he doesn't need to get a taxi. Like you DS he struggles with long days. Massive pain for us both work wise.

I'm a bit confused on how many pick ups and drop offs you need.

Back to basics, I think a solid routine that is utterly predictable would help DD accept the situation. Can you systemise and simplify it so you have a set timetable of childcare every week? This may involve DH offering less flexibility to work than he currently does, but workplaces often accept this as parents are tied to nursery runs etc. Then there need to be some deals struck. She can have 2 breakfasts some of the time, and get dropped later into breakfast club on a Friday. Have, say, 2 dedicated days when they definitely don't have to do after school club. When she moans, remind her that the new system needs to be like this so she gets her 2 days off after school club or whatever. But I do think it needs to be consistent. When DS (who is autistic) was 1 and a ball of rage demanding Cbeebies all day long, I instigated a rule of no telly before lunch. After a week of hell it transformed our lives. He stopped asking for it. I get why you need the flex at the moment but it might also be fuelling the situation in the wider sense.

Also I know it's not what you're asking but can you do anything else to remove flashpoints from your morning routine? Dress her if need be, keep toothbrush downstairs so you don't have to wrangle her upstairs after breakfast. Cut morning routine down to absolute minimum and keep it very predictable. Yes you need to encourage independence etc but it can wait.

How far are you into term? Apologies if I have missed it in your posts.

It sounds to me like you're feeling overwhelmed and you need to take a big step back, deep breath and start from scratch. Yes, DD's life is really being affected at the moment but keep reminding yourself that across the country, lots of other DC are in a similar boat. Some 5 year olds are doing wraparound 8-6 every day because of parents' work and/or commutes. Some also have siblings in different schools for other reasons. It's more of a challenge for single parent families too. Of course it's rubbish for her and it is more personal because of the way her school treated your DS, but I think faking a breezy "this is normal for a lot of families, it just has to be this way" attitude will reassure your DD and help her accept it.

I'm sorry it's all so difficult. Taxi for DS in the mornings might well be the way forward. Either just have it some days if they do that, or take it 5 days a week and find another way to communicate with his teacher. Something's got to give and phone/email can work.

Eek. Sorry for the essay.

Would a childminder pick DD up? It would be no use if we had to take her to a CM.
We don't have room for an au pair sadly. Actually, not sadly. Both DH and I would hate having an au pair.
The problem with changing our working patterns of the only thing that would make a difference is if DH had several fixed days he wasn't in the office as I work close enough that I can drop off or pick up one or both but if he is, he can't do any. And his office can't really do that. We can ask, but one fixed WFH day a week would still mean four days we have to do this awful combination.

We do make things as easy as we can for DD - nobody ever goes back upstairs if we can help it, for example. She'd fight us dressing her though.
Sadly though I think DS would like to cycle up to breakfast club the hill is too steep for him to come down safely! Another reason not to love walking up there at 7.30 am.
The problem is all made worse by DD's age and lack of understanding and by DS SEN because it's no good saying to either of them "I know you didn't have to do this yesterday but today you do". That jUst makes them even less likely to cooperate, it has to be The Same All The Time.

The problem with changing our working patterns of the only thing that would make a difference is if DH had several fixed days he wasn't in the office as I work close enough that I can drop off or pick up one or both but if he is, he can't do any. And his office can't really do that. We can ask, but one fixed WFH day a week would still mean four days we have to do this awful combination

Why can't his office accommodate it, though? They are used to him being flexible, sure, but as part of a formal Flexible Working Request, they ought to be able to consider it. It's better for them too, surely, to know that meetings he needs to be in must be scheduled on X days, or he will be able to dial in via Skype if a meeting must happen on a day he WFH. Nearly all offices have various combinations of parents working PT and different patterns, and it can work. If it is a client issue, the clients will also get used to it and will schedule accordingly.

one fixed WFH day a week would still mean four days we have to do this awful combination

What about your work pattern, though? Is there absolutely nothing that would help there? If your DH can WFH on at least one fixed week day, and you could modify your hours so that you could do pick up for both children on one fixed week day, then you only have to figure out afterschool/breakfast club for 3 specific weekdays.

Thinking outside the box here - are there any older secondary school/college kids locally who might come in at 7.30, give DD breakfast and walk her to school and then have time to get to school/college themselves? and who might be able to walk her home?

Re how DD is doing at school, I was just wondering if there was any traction in exploring alternatives for her. Because if she's not doing great, and you know already that this school doesn't deal well with 'issues', then chances are you will be looking to move her sooner or later anyway. Maybe moving her sooner would be better.

Perhaps a different school that is closer to DS' new school, or one that has more compatible pick-up/drop-off times. Or if it would be worth discussing with DS' new school (they sound as if they'd be open to discussion, at least) if there are some changes they could make to avoid the reasons you state that speak against her going there. If both your children went there, would they listen to your concerns regarding having them share some class time? I can imagine, if they are switched on, that they would realise (listen to you) that it isn't a good idea and find ways to deal with it/avoid it.

Then put DD on the waiting list. Or suggest to old school that they might want to manage her out too, so you can skip the waiting list. They might be amenable...

You're in the same position that loads of parents are in - inflexible school times and inflexible work times. You're trying to do it all and you just can't.

if you can't or wont have an au pair, then you need a childminder for your dd. You drop her there on the way to dropping your ds at school. The childminder takes her to school and picks her up.

You don't have any choice. The schools aren't going to change their hours for you. If you can't get your employers to give you predictable hours, you have to just work through it.

I think I seem to have had different children at different schools throughout (also have a son with SEN) and it's always worked out. Latterly because i had an au pair. But I've used childminders too and breakfast and afterschool clubs.

at one stage I had a lovely student who had just left university - she was like a live-out au pair. I advertised on Gumtree.

Definitely get LA transport for the mornings. That completely solves that problem.

Then do transport home certain days. I've had plenty of families who have transport but don't use it every journey.

I wouldn't be factoring in talking to parents and teacher as part of the problem. I probably would try to sort out a childminder or another parent to help with DD. I totally agree that it is a long day for a 5 year old.