Withdrawing DD from RE?

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I want to see if anyone’s had any experience withdrawing their children from PE? How did the school handle it etc.

My husband and I are both atheists. Our DD is 5 and is extremely interested in the universe and science. She’s now coming back from school very confused thinking that god created the world and asking if he made the Big Bang happen! This is too confusing for her, she naturally believes what her teachers tell her (why wouldn’t she) so naturally she’s taking RE as fact and it’s confusing the hell out of her.

I’m happy for her to learn about god in her own way in the future and find her own path but she’s much too young right now.

I’ve read we have the right to withdraw her from Re so simply want to see if people have had experiences with this.

Why would you need to be taught about faith, if you have faith & believe you’ll have it within you surely

My question still stands?

How do you get taught to believe in god and why do you need to be?

Also a misconception that at an "atheist" school, people of faith would have to suck up being told "God doesn't exist".

This is a example of what religions education looks like in a secular school with no religious affiliations. Nothing to fear there for people of faith, their views are respected and tolerance is encouraged.

www.newforestsmallschool.com/philosophyandethics

hiddenmumsnetter humanism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017-04-19-BHA-guide-for-non-religious-parents.pdf

This explains different schools, collective worship & RE

“Well, i’m still interested in how Christian parents make sure their children are properly informed about the possibilities of other faiths and of none. They do tend to find this a difficult matter to address.”
Still waiting!

DD went to a COf E school with visiting lady Reverands.She decided that she didn't believe when she was a bout 6 and then got on with enjoying learning about all religions.I felt her school erred on the side of caution and taught hardly anything about Christianity.I had to fill in with Easter,the Bible etc.If she doesn't believe in God that's OK but I wanted her to be equipped to hold an argument if required.

@ceara- maybe although I suspect it's a common issue. My daughter was v disturbed by the content of the Easter learning last year and from what I heard the kids themselves reading out in the end of term church service (crucifixion, ear cut off etc etc) I'd have expected to be in trouble for sitting my five year old in front of a film with that content. They toned it down a bit this year thankfully.

I am Christian. I have always taken an “I believe in x but other people believe in y” type approach. My belief is my belief not anyone else’s. By the time he was about 6 he was questioning things and at the age of 8 realised that he doesn’t believe which is fine. When I am filling in forms and things for him now I wouldn’t dream of putting him as Christian but that’s not who he is.

I think on any issue you need to guide a child to develop their own thought processes and that includes not having to automatically think that what their parents believe is the only way to believe.

I don’t find it difficult to explain to dc why their friend is observing Ramadan etc, or doesn’t eat pork. I tell them some people don’t believe in life after death, but we (ie their mum and dad!) do. I’ve told them it’s up to them as they grow up whether they want to be religious. They are both still young and I imagine the conversations will be more broad ranging when they are teenagers. We discuss the environment, politics, animal rights as well as religion so I don’t think they will hear a broad range of opinions - though obviously with a slant to what we believe ourselves, it’s hard to sing the praises of Theresa May for example, so there is always some bias!

I do think they’ll hear

I'd have expected to be in trouble for sitting my five year old in front of a film with that content

That made my giggle as it was exactly DH's reaction - I think he concluded it was at least a 15 ;-) It's sad but also reassuring to know that we and DS are not along in our experience!

Religious Education should be an academic subject that involves teaching children about religion in the same way that history or geography teach about those subjects. RE also covers atheism, agnosticism, ethics and philosophy of religion, even as young as Y4. It needs to be age-appropriate and starting with bible stories and the idea that, for example, a creation story might also have another purpose - eg to deal with the problem of suffering in the world - is a valuable way of beginning to develop interpretative and critical thinking skills, even if children start off by taking them at face value.

Why is the focus just on Christians? Why not ask how Muslim parents ensure their kids learn about other faiths. Or Jews, etc. Why attack Christians? The intolerance directed at Christians is shocking.

As a Muslim I think the attack on Christianity is the same as an attack on Muslim because we pretty much believe in the same God and the things considered sinful are more or less the same.

“Why is the focus just on Christians? Why not ask how Muslim parents ensure their kids learn about other faiths. Or Jews, etc. Why attack Christians? The intolerance directed at Christians is shocking”

I don’t attack Christians. I usually say “people of faith” but the truth is that in this country Christianity is the only faith that impacts on my life at all. And it is only Christians who come on threads like this and tell me that I should be happy to have “just a little bit of Christianity” in my life.

Why is the focus just on Christians
Because the role of the Church of England in this country's constitution is very unusual in a 'developed' country. Its power is undemocratic and unaccountable to the British people.

So many of us stuck with schools delivering Christian materials with which most don't believe and we have no democratic recourse to its removal from school curriucula.

The C of E's role in law making and other aspects of our state are even more problematic in a country in which Christianity is a minority religion.

The majority of the British population describes themselves as non religious.

Why is the focus just on Christians? Why not ask how Muslim parents ensure their kids learn about other faiths. Or Jews, etc. Why attack Christians? The intolerance directed at Christians is shocking.

Yes, so persecuted, only a quarter of state-funded schools give them preferential treatment. So shocking.

Like many people, I have no problem with others practising their faith as long as it isn’t detrimental to or imposed upon others.

I will argue, strongly, that state-funded services like healthcare and education shouldn’t discriminate based on faith, and I will call out the hypocrisy of any people of that faith who defend that discrimination while claiming their faith promotes equality and that the values of their faith are superior to the values held by those of us who don’t think religious discrimination against five year olds is good.

the other side of the story
Hmmm - where to start . .

This seems like a very English problem, there are Catholic schools in Scotland but no C of E/other denominations. We have 6 religious assemblies a year, which don’t have to be religious as much as reflective.

The Church of England started providing free and affordable education long before the state was interested in educating the poor. Consequently, a large percentage of schools in the UK are on church land and partially funded by the church. As it happens, for the most part, these schools do not require students to be Christian and do not force Christian teachings down their throats. There is, understandably, a cultural Christianity, usually visible in hymn singing, an annual nativity and learning bible stories in RE, but these things are not damaging. They don't stop children from growing up open minded and capable of deciding what they believe for themselves.

Obviously there are exceptions - usual church schools in urban areas with very good results that become desirable end up having more stringent entrance criteria based on faith. I have some sympathy with parents who are faced with a situation where their catchiest school is very religious school, but for the most part I think it is a mistake to deprive children of any education, including religious education.

I take the view that, for most of history, most religion has been cultural rather than ardently believed. The annual festivals and rites of passage punctuate the year, but that is as far as it goes. The number of converted Methodist chapels near me is testimony to 200 years of failed attempts to get the locals to become more faithful Christians, but the reality is that pagan festivals like May Day continued to flourish, a local legend about a Norse god has endured and there are pagan symbols hidden all over the parish church. There was a German theologian called Rudolf Bultmann who pointed out that, while the Romans prayed to Demeter for a good harvest, they also put manure on the land.

There is, understandably, a cultural Christianity, usually visible in hymn singing, an annual nativity and learning bible stories in RE, but these things are not damaging. They don't stop children from growing up open minded and capable of deciding what they believe for themselves.

I would argue that they are harmful, but even if I put that aside, do
they do any good?

Why is the focus just on Christians? Why not ask how Muslim parents ensure their kids learn about other faiths. Or Jews, etc. Why attack Christians? The intolerance directed at Christians is shocking.

When you come from a place of privilege equality can feel like persecution.

I 'pick on' Christians because they have places in the house of lords, because, 'Christian worship, is compulsory in schools, because I don't see why shops have to close early on a Sunday, and I'm old enough to remember when they didn't open at all.

I will also pick on Christians because as a teacher they can legally discriminate against me when I apply for a job.

I know other faiths can do this, but the local Sikh school doesn't.

When parents apply for a school place they can end up with a child in a Christian faith school, I've not come across any child being allocated a Jewish or Muslim school.

The Church of England started providing free and affordable education long before the state was interested in educating the poor

Very limited provision and arguable whether it had any educational value.

CofE resisted attempts to keep religion out of their provision even then in nineteenth century.

However, Shakespeare and his contemporary working class boys benefited not from a Christian education but a renaissance Humanist one.

Hence Shakespeare, and a few other great thinkers.

Might be worth re thinking that one.

Protestant churches have always been interested in teaching people to read as if you can’t read you can’t read the Bible. Learning how to read is a massive tool for improvement.

Also a misconception that at an "atheist" school, people of faith would have to suck up being told "God doesn't exist".

Yes, but if someone started an atheist school that existed specifically for the purpose of reinforcing atheist values taught by parents at home (one of which included being taught that God does not exist), the attendance at that school by religious would be their hard luck.

My point is that these schools exist for a specific purpose. They were often founded by church groups who were looking specifically for a place for their children to have what they were being taught at home emulated at school (back when people cared more about the distinction between CofE & Catholic largely, but there are many specifically Jewish schools today for instance).

If this is the case, then sending one’s children to school where the values are different is simply the consequences of that choice, surely? I don’t want my child raised as a practicing Hebrew, so I wouldn’t send her to a Jewish school. If that was what was most important to me, then I would opt for a different school or if there are no options then I might take the effort to move. If it didn’t really bother me, then let them attend.

Ultimately if you really want to withdraw them from RE then withdraw, but if it matters that much why send them to a religious school in the first place?

Printing press, equal rights for women, free state education and internet have done more for reading than anything churches did.

I take the view that, for most of history, most religion has been cultural rather than ardently believed

The problem is, the unaccountable political power C of E has, in british consitution.

Which leads directly to parents being powerless to affect the religious content of curriculums in what are publicly funded State Schools.

We withdrew my DS from RE in Primary School because the teacher was a ‘believer’. The curriculum was only based around protestantism and presbyterianism (state school). We sent in a simple 3 line letter to the principal saying we were withdrawing him but he could participate in assemblies and left it at that.
The teacher then let him use the extra time for his homework etc. It worked well.
If they object, just point out the bible says women shouldn’t teach.