Withdrawing DD from RE?

[Widget123]

I want to see if anyone’s had any experience withdrawing their children from PE? How did the school handle it etc.

My husband and I are both atheists. Our DD is 5 and is extremely interested in the universe and science. She’s now coming back from school very confused thinking that god created the world and asking if he made the Big Bang happen! This is too confusing for her, she naturally believes what her teachers tell her (why wouldn’t she) so naturally she’s taking RE as fact and it’s confusing the hell out of her.

I’m happy for her to learn about god in her own way in the future and find her own path but she’s much too young right now.

I’ve read we have the right to withdraw her from Re so simply want to see if people have had experiences with this.

[JITSOG]

BertrandRussell

My motivation for not engaging more with you is that, no matter what I respond with, you will deem it unsatisfactory. I’ve name changed a few times and we’ve “locked heads” before.

Consequently, I do not feel the need to repetitively “persuade” you about the merits of my parenting choices.

Having studied Calvin recently, I find some of his theology fascinating. And from that, if his theory is be be correct, I can see that no matter what, atheism will always appeal to you.

[woman19]

RE as a subject is great to promote a questionning attitude and helps with formulating arguments and essay writing

I would be happy to see children taught to discuss the impact of economic and political free tickets given to british religious organisations though.

Why not let KS1 and 2 children discuss how about the £8.3bn of assets the Church of England is allowed to stash, tax free could be more equitably spent by the British people?

[Ilovechocolate01]

Ask the class teacher if they'll show you the scheme of work. In my primary school we teach every faith and the emphasis is on values such as being kind, caring, community, helping people etc.

I'm an atheist (also a teacher) but I have no problem teaching this as research has shown that people are much more tolerant of other religions if they understand more about them.

I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but at high school I believe it is, or due to be, compulsory anyway.

[ZenNudist]

Bertrand I send my dc to faith school and and am (recently) a practicing Catholic. DH is atheist but had good RE education at school so is always throwing other beliefs into the mix as counter arguments.

I explain about atheism and agnosticism to my dc. I plan on having many more discussions about different faith positions especially at secondary school. I dont think ignoring the beliefs of others, particularly the prevalence of secularism is a good way to preserve faith.

Im a bit by the OP, is this a C of E school (in which case I'm confused why you would send your dd there)? In any case Im surprised a reception teacher is teaching "big bang was caused by God". Seems a bit advanced. Probably is best to go and acquaint yourself with their RE syllabus and ask a few questions.

Also maybe my dc are really insensitive but they get taught in depth about the passion of Christ and haven't found it disturbing. If schools are teaching RE in a way that is "scaring the crap out of 5 year olds" then something is going badly wrong.

Theres so much ignorance and misunderstanding about various religions. My own RE was sadly lacking to the point that I've only recently learned more about my own and others' faiths. I think we need more, better, diverse teaching of RE in schools. Precious little hope of that as the government mainly care about literacy numeracy and science/technology. Schools are not educating our children in enlightenment and tolerance. So its up to parents to fill that gap.

Off to read IdaBWells articles. Thanks for those.

[Ceara]

My son was having nightmares, and calling it the "terrible story", and saying he was scared. Definitely something was going wrong. But the kneejerk response is "it's a church school, obligations, SIAMS, blah blah, what do you expect?".

Clearly, not this.

Non-Christians send our children to church schools because it is the local school and we want them to be educated with the local community and have local friends. Or because it's the school we're allocated a place at. Or because it seems the best fit and we think the RE curriculum will be the same as in every other school because they all have to teach the same locally agreed syllabus, and all schools have a broadly Christian daily act of collective worship and end of term services in the local church , and the Christian values on the website are just decent morals we can all share and get behind, so being a church school seems a neutral factor in the choice (if there is a choice in practice at all) . Or because for historical reasons the Church of England runs about 1 in 4 primary schools, and our perception is that the background and motivation is service to the community and the schools are for everybody. This isn't denominational schools in NI we're talking about.

[JassyRadlett]

Im a bit hmm by the OP, is this a C of E school (in which case I'm confused why you would send your dd there)?

In reality many people don’t have another realistic option. ‘Choice’ for all is a myth.

[AJPTaylor]

All 3 of my dds come from a long line of non believers on both sides. Me and dh went through state school without it making the slightest dent on our non belief. Although I totally enjoyed hymn Singing.
Dds 1 and 2 are adults. Dd3 ironically moved to a c of e school for years 5 and 6 As we moved.
Dd2 had a friend who was taken out of all religious stuff. Pretty sure she just felt excluded. We simply told our kids that people did believe and took a lot of comfort and joy from it and that some of the cleverest people had a deep faith. All the state schools my kids went to covered all faiths which I think is important.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

And you personally know every Christian across the world to back up this statement

In the Bible, Jesus tells his disciples and believers it is their responsibility to spread his word, to teach non believers their way and bring them to Christ.

[thirdfiddle]

I think children not brought up with religion at home can sometimes look more deeply into it when it's presented. If you're brought up with the cross as a symbol perhaps you're somewhat protected against seeing it as an instrument of torture even when you're told someone was nailed to it? For atheist children the coming back to life bit isn't real, the torturing to death bit is.

[FamilyOfAliens]

The OP appears to be a plopper ...

[Ceara]

Thirdfiddle I think that's it exactly.

The RE teaching and the collective worship at DS's school was tin-eared and insensitive to the likely emotional response of a child coming to it fresh and from a non-religious background. There are ways of approaching difficult ideas sensitively, but unfortunately the focus seemed to be a "must learn Bible story/salvation narrative" information dump.

[BertrandRussell]

We went to a church playgroup when dd was little . The Miniater came to give a little Christmas chat. He had a felt Christmas tree on the table in front of him- and at one point when he was talking about the true meaning of Christmas he picked it up and there was a crucifix underneath it. The tree was like a little tea cosy for it. Disclaimer - I know this is proper batshit behaviour and Most Christians Are Not Like This.

[ivykaty44]

In the Bible, Jesus tells his disciples and believers it is their responsibility to spread his word, to teach non believers their way and bring them to Christ.

Why would you need to be taught about faith, if you have faith & believe you’ll have it within you surely

[InfiniteCurve]

The problem with the crucifixion story is that from a non Christian PoV it is just a "terrible story" .Crucifixion was a horrible way to die.Most forms of execution are horrible ways to die,and not appropriate for 5 year olds to be learning about in detail,or maybe at all.
But obviously from the Christian point of view the horror is balanced by what happens next.
If my child had been traumatised by graphic descriptions of the crucifixion I would expect the school to produce a better response that that they have an obligation to teach Christian theology and that's it - apart from anything else they have failed to teach the Christian view of Easter if what they have conveyed to a small child is horror.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

Why would you need to be taught about faith, if you have faith & believe you’ll have it within you surely

I'm an atheist, I was responding to a poster who said that faith wasn't pushed on to other people. It actually says in the Bible it's the responsibility of believers to do it.

I was brought up in a church minister's house so despite not believing (and in actual fact becoming catholic when I was a teenager) I do have some memories of passages from the Bible. I was merely explaining that.

[hiddenmnetter]

I don’t get it honestly- it’s a Church of England school. The clue is in the name. Why wouldn’t they teach Church of England doctrine? If you don’t want your kids taught CofE doctrine send them to a non-religious school?

That way if people want their children taunt CofE doctrine they can send their kids to the school that advertises that is what it does, and those who don’t, don’t. If it’s the only good school in the area or whatever else is your reason for electing to send your atheist child to a religious school, then suck it up. Much the same way if a religious parent sent their child to an avowedly atheist school (because it was the only good school/most convenient etc) they would have to accept their child being told “God does not exist”.

Surely, surely, that is the point of a religious school? Why would you be bothered by this? Didn’t you expect it?

[SirBobblyofSock]

I really struggle with the concept of 'Christian doctors', these are grown adults who accept the resurrection and virgin birth and yet I am supposed to trust them with evidence-based decisions about my health?

[BertrandRussell]

“If you don’t want your kids taught CofE doctrine send them to a non-religious school?“
There aren’t any.
There are non faith schools- but they are still de facto Christian.

And a lot of people have no choice in their child’s school- through get what they are given.

[Looneytune253]

Hmmm tbh she's probably getting that from assembly more than RE. RE is probably better for her if that's your belief as it teaches them all about other religions etc etc. Is yours a faith school? Regardless most school will have a daily act of worship (usually assembly) it's worth talking to the school but your better off just talking to her and teaching her yourself

[Lucyslampost]

I withdrew my children from a particular set of RE lessons they had in year 5, taught by a creationist from the local evangelical church. He told them that the Earth was 5,000 years old and that evolution was a lie, and much more besides. I knew he really did say all that because my friend was working at the school at the time, and popped into the classroom to check.

So I pulled them out of it. They were delighted. However, I was fine with them having 'normal' RE lessons and making their own minds up, which they did.

[SirBobblyofSock]

@BertrandRussell
Yes! Exactly the position we were in. Live very rurally, local(ish) school is CofE, most others in area also are. We chose local so our child could have local friends and integrate into community. In reality, majority of parents are atheists/agnostic and about half of teachers are too. Head is v enthusiastic about kids learning 'The Truth'

[woman19]

And a lot of people have no choice in their child’s school- through get what they are given
Exactly.
Many advanced countries ensure that state services are secular, Britain is very much in the minority in this regard.

[BertrandRussell]

It’s fascinating, isn’t it? If anyone suggested that a third of libraries should let Christians have first choice of books everyone would be up in arms. But it seems perfectly normal for schools......

[Ceara]

SirBobbly, do our children go to the same school? :-)

Hidden - where does this notion come from that atheist parents don't want their children to know about religion? I want DS to be as informed as possible about Christianity and other religions, from a breadth of perspectives (not just, but obvs including, theology). And I don't have an "atheist child" (or I didn't until last month!), I have a "child", who is learning the world for himself and will choose his path.

The CofE run 1 in 4 primary schools, for historical reasons dating back to the C19th. They've always been said to be for the whole community, including other denominations, other faiths, and none - and inclusive places.

I expect non-confessional RE, following the locally agreed syllabus. I expect collective worship of a Christian nature (in all schools) but delivered in a way which recognises schools worship is distinct from corporate worship and not all present are of the faith. That's not unreasonable, it's the law. I also expect sensitivity to the age group and individual children, because that's good education practice. Also not unreasonable.

I should suck up my son having nightmares caused by the hamfisted way a topic's being delivered in school - really?

DS upset is, btw, coming from both collective worship and the RE teaching. The RE lessons lobbed out a whole series of hand grenades in the shape of difficult new imagery, vocabulary and ideas (salvation...betrayal...the cross...capital punishment and violent death... resurrection.... forgiveness.... eternal life...) then ran away. Prefacing it with "Christians believe that" doesn't excuse a rapid fire information brain dump in RE on 4/5 year olds, with no space to explore the ideas and questions properly. Our locally agreed syllabus recommends a much more child-centred, exploratory, approach. My issue isn't with DS knowing about what Christians believe, it's about the way it's taught.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I'm going to rot in hell for suggesting a viewing of Life of Brian, aren't I?