"DS was able to guess some of the words from the pictures"

[drspouse]

Comment back on DS reading record.
He is massively struggling with GPCs that school say he knows but all the books he comes home with have maybe 1 or 2 of the things he can't do plus loads of much harder words (e.g. adventure, science).
I decided not to bother reading school books with him and have got one of the ORT book packs.
I will tell them I'm doing this but given that we forbid him from guessing what do I say to this comment?
He's in Y2 and on band 5, he can decode but struggles with any alternative spellings or split digraphs.

Do you know if it was a teacher or a parent listener?

I would be sorely tempted to comment underneath. Thank you. We discourage guessing and prefer that he is encouraged to use his phonics knowledge

Did he 'pass' the y1 phonics screening test? If not, he should be getting extra support I think?

I have seen you have posted on this subject many times. Isn't it a time that you give up on school and take everything on your hands?
You have got many great advice on MN, you know what to do.
If the school is willing to listen, great, but if not for such a long time since I've noticed you posting about your dc's school's phonics teaching, it's either give up and do it yourself, change school, or fight all the way to change their ways to teach.

I think it was a TA, but now you mention it, it's possible it was a parent helper.
Yes, he passed the phonics screen. He gets the idea, just not most of the sounds.
We have our own books and won't be reading any of these unhelpful school reading books any more but if they are sabotaging him that's not very helpful.

Further info that may be relevant:
School has an amazing SENCO and they are like hens' teeth. So we aren't moving.
School have got very defensive about these books before and refused to believe that he can't use his GPCs.
I'm pretty surprised he passed his screener (because it had some combos on that he really doesn't know).

I agree with PP that you should perhaps take on the task of sorting his reading at home. I doubt he reads enough at school for them to do any harm at least.

We've made a start and he seemed quite astonished that ea makes ee.

They do a surprisingly large amount of reading with him actually - I suspect a combination of him having a 1:1 and being in the "just scraped through the screener" group.
But they have been relying on us to fill the gaps, so we'll just use more sensible books.

I don't know the background story. But both of mine have gone through this phase (dd1 yr4, dd2 yr1). My eldest is a good reader now, but I still catch her guessing or just missing unknown words out.
We are lucky though that they get listen to reading everyday at school both still find reading a chore though to my frustration

My understanding is that learning to read is very complex, and that guessing a word and associating that correct guess with the shape of the word is one part of how children learn to read. So, whilst phonics are an important part of learning to read, other things will help too. After all, if looking at the pictures was not a part of learning to read, they wouldn’t need to put pictures in children’s books, would they?

If your ds is working out some words using phonics and others by association with the pictures, and is enjoying the process and the feeling of success at reading a book, surely that is a good thing?

My ds's school had great Senco, so I can understand you don't want to move.
Good thing is, that the teacher change every year. You may get the teacher who would go above and beyond for your ds, and willing to listen t your suggestion next year.

If your ds have 1-1 who reads with him a lot, can't you get her/him on board with you?

guessing a word and associating that correct guess with the shape of the word is one part of how children learn to read
No. No it isn't. You can't learn every word that way.
And he really doesn't like reading because if you don't know your GPCs, it's blooming hard. Not to mention impossible.

irvine I don't really know them. Only the class teacher. She just told me he knows his GPCs.

I did NOT say you can learn every word by associating the picture and the shape of the word - I said it is one part of learning to read.

It all sounds very intense and like he might feel a lot of pressure from you to read perfectly? Thats just from how you come across herem obviousky I don't know you or how you interact with your son.

Is there a reason why you're so focussed on him getting it all perfect now? Children really do learn so much more easily, and more comprehensively, when they enjoy those activities. Sitting reading a book where he's not forced to sound out every word will not foster a love of reading. Sitting and reading funny books together, with you doing the harder words and him doing the ones he knows easily, and gradually building up how much he reads with enthusiastic encouragement will bring about so much more joy. He will be much more likely to pick up books independently and really focus on reading well then. Sight words are a very important part of learning to read so there is a lot more to it all than just phonics. If he keeps guessing and it is because he is struggling rather than him being uninterested and wanting to rush it so he can play, then maybe ask to get him assessed. It can be a sign of dyslexia

Personally, reading is something you can teach well at home if you have a good understanding. You have people like Mrz and Feenie on your side, you can always ask for sage advice.

My situation was a bit different, but my ds's school's attitude about my ds's learning of maths was similar. I followed advice from great teachers like Noble, and years later, I do think I did better job than school did, tbh. I do think it's better if the school was more helpful, but I given up putting my effort into something impossible.
Still, school was great, and ds loved it, so never thought about moving, but stopped expecting. Some years, teachers were great. Some were hopeless.

guessing a word and associating that correct guess with the shape of the word is one part of how children learn to read

Absolutely!! Sime dyslexic children will use this strategy. As will some with Irene Syndrome.

Look at precision teaching - it’s proven to work.

You can print a phonics screen at home and test your child on what he’s missing and work on those

The school books are meant to be repetitive and have ‘guess’ words for that story - it’s how they learn and tailored to phonics

Have you tried something like reading eggs or teach your monster. Sometimes getting a bit of tech involved can be motivating

"guessing a word and associating that correct guess with the shape of the word is one part of how children learn to read" no it isn't! 😱 these are last resort strategies used by those who can't read and not to be encouraged. The evidence clearly shows that The brain processes every single letter and does not look at the whole word shape.

"I did NOT say you can learn every word by associating the picture and the shape of the word - I said it is one part of learning to read" it really isn't ...it's part of a discredited theory that did terrible disservice to millions.

Sorry. I clearly meant to post elsewhere. I’ve asked for it to be deleted.

@greatthat we found Reading Eggs really clunky. He likes TYMTR but he just obsessively does the same reception level mini game again and again and refuses to do anything harder.
Map if I read to him and suggest he reads one word, unless it's CVC, he refuses and runs off. And he needs lots and lots of the same GPCs again and again, which story books don't have. But why wouldn't I want him to read the books that are at his level, correctly? Why would I let him repeat a mistake? He'll only learn that mistake is correct!

The school books are meant to be repetitive and have ‘guess’ words for that story
Those contradict each other surely?
The school books are supposed to have the same GPCs again and again.
Not a sentence frame such as "I like" and then a word that can be guessed from the picture but which doesn't teach a GPC.

I’m not sure reading eggs is a great fit for a child who is struggling tbh.

Have you tried one of the sound foundations books - dancing bears etc. 10 mins a day will probably make a difference. If he can manage stage 5 and blend CVC words, then he’s got the basics. It sounds like what he needs next might just be carefully structured systematic teaching of the rest of the code.

Yep that's exactly what he needs - I just don't think he's getting enough of it at school.

So, whilst phonics are an important part of learning to read, other things will help too

They really don't. As has been pointed out many times, study after study has shown that teaching using synthetic phonics only has a 95%+ success rate, i.e. 95%+ of children learn to read. If you introduce other methods alongside synthetic phonics the success rate falls to 80%.

It is disappointing that some people continue to push discredited theories.

I'm sure this will be unpopular but if he has passed the screening test I would strip everything back and just concentrating on reading and books being a pleasurable thing for him. Some simple graphic novels/comics etc. Lots of stories together with no pressure. I don't know about the mechanics of phonics and decoding but I do know that reading is not just about decoding and learning to read has lots of emotional ingredients as well as technical ones.