"DS was able to guess some of the words from the pictures"

[drspouse]

Comment back on DS reading record.
He is massively struggling with GPCs that school say he knows but all the books he comes home with have maybe 1 or 2 of the things he can't do plus loads of much harder words (e.g. adventure, science).
I decided not to bother reading school books with him and have got one of the ORT book packs.
I will tell them I'm doing this but given that we forbid him from guessing what do I say to this comment?
He's in Y2 and on band 5, he can decode but struggles with any alternative spellings or split digraphs.

It's so great that someone like prh47 speaks out. Not a teacher. Have so much respect from many Mnetters. A lot of teachers trying to educate others get abused being bossy. At least Prh47 isn't, he isn't a teacher!

@Mookatron you might try reading the thread...
How can you get the emotions and enjoyable bits if you can't actually read the words?

I did read the thread thanks.

It's well known that tiny babies enjoy books and stories and language.

It will be a lot easier for him to learn to read if he actively wants to.

Creating a lot of anxiety and feelings of failure around reading will not help him want to learn.

We do read TO him if that's what you mean. He does enjoy it.
He's not going to get anything out of reading himself if he can't, you know, tell what the words are.

Creating a lot of anxiety and feelings of failure around reading will not help him want to learn.
Yeah thanks for that completely unfounded suggestion.
The current school books are too hard if they can only be guessed. THAT is what will create feelings of failure.

I disagree. Yes you can, by reading the words you can read, looking at the pictures, working out the content from the context. When you read TO him he is doing lots of interpretative 'reading' work too. It's not just about decoding.

What I actually meant was I suggest you back off and calm down, but I didn't want to be rude. However since you seem to have no qualms about being rude I won't either.

@prh47bridge are you saying that learning phonics alone is more effective than learning phonics and also learning sight words?

My daughter’s school does only phonics (no word tins or flash cards) and I’ve always assumed this was a bad thing. If I’m understanding you correctly though, sounds like using only phonics isn’t so bad after all?

Thanks for clarifying as this is very topical in our house right now.

We read with him once a day.
That's what school suggests.
So you don't think we should read with him, or get him to read, despite school asking us to, and despite school not being successful at all in teaching him?
Instead we should read books to him which WON'T practice the things he's currently needing to learn, because picture books aren't designed to teach phonics?
Working out the content from the context is NOT how children learn to read.
Yes that makes so much sense: DON'T teach him anything, even though he needs it and school want us too. Because that will REALLY help him to learn.

Sounds like he's running off because he's scared of making a mistake in front of you. I think you're being too stressy over it all and you're putting him off even wanting to try. What's the use in him being able to read perfectly if you've put him off reading? They all learn to read, it is just about pace

No, he just doesn't like a) anything involving effort or b) mum making a nice bedtime story about boring learning.

I am dyslexic and didn't learn to read until I was about 7 or 8. Then I learned very quickly, I still don't really get phonics but they aren't the only way to learn.
I read very quickly, often only reading the first few letters of a word, similar I have come to realise to the way auto correct on a computer works. Then I often often read the first few words of a sentence.
I love reading, did well in my English exams, once my spelling and handwriting was discounted and I had a little extra writing time.
A love of books and stories is the best way forward from my perspective, that is what kept me going when I couldn't understand anything.
I always found repetitive activities that I couldnt really do just caused me to shut down.
If he likes drawing use books with high volumes of pictures or cartoons/ graphic novels maybe?

He also runs off if we suggest a story with more than about 3 words per page, or indeed anything else that involves effort our attention.

A love of books and stories is the best way forward from my perspective, that is what kept me going when I couldn't understand anything
I don't really get how you can love them if they mean nothing at all?

If Yr 2 is 5-6 then he has years to catch up, give him more time.

I disagree as well. Ds detested reading and just couldn't get it at all. At the end of year 4 he could read almost nothing, his name, maybe a few things he was super familiar with, but I'm pretty sure they were guesses. He had memorised lots of books, so he could look like he was reading, but he wasn't. He finally got it the next year and started to read. A year later he had worked his way through an insane amount of books. A year after that he won the schools reading challenge. He's now year 9 and in the top 2% of his year.

At no point did we, ever, ever try hard to get him to read a book. Every now and again we'd ask. He'd say no. We would ask him what signs etc said, he'd just make stuff up. We read to him for hours and hours, because he loved that.

To me it sounds like you are very anxious about it and possibly trying too hard. All the acronyms you have mentioned I don't know what a single one of them means. I would just back off hugely and let him progress at his own pace. Even if that means he is not reading at home at all. Do something else with him that he does enjoy.

But you won't get to love books if they make you want to run away, either. I don't understand why you are so vehement about pushing phonics when that doesn't seem to be working for him at the moment?

I also remember never really getting phonics. I do the same 'auto correct' style reading as a pp and I was also a really late reader.

I think a nice bedtime story is enough and I would be very careful of turning him off reading anymore than you already have!

What I meant OP is that I loved listening to stories being read from books, loved the way the paper and bindings felt and smelled in larger, older books, loved the illustrations.
My DP's would get me to read the odd easier word and it wasn't a huge deal if that was all I could do.
Neil Gaimin has talked about how as long as DC are reading it doesn't matter what they read. If you read graphic novels that allow him to guess words from the context that builds a feeling a confidence and positivity about books. Wanting to engage with books has got to be the most important thing at this stage.
My DS isn't dyslexic but failed his phonic screening for several years in a row, school is plugging away with his phonics because they think it will help his spelling but his reading is fine.
Not all DC are the same and therefore there are very few one size fits all approaches to any part of parenting including learning to read. If you love reading and manage to pass on your love of books to your DS I'm sure he will find a way to enjoy them too.

are you saying that learning phonics alone is more effective than learning phonics and also learning sight words?

That is what the available research says, yes.

I still don't really get phonics but they aren't the only way to learn

If a child does not successfully learn to read using synthetic phonics you need to look at other strategies. But you should always start using synthetic phonics alone. If you don't you will end up with more children being unable to read adequately.

So if a child doesn't seem to be succeeding with phonics by Year 2, it would seem sensible to try other strategies?

He is succeeding with the phonics he has been taught, except that it takes him a bit longer than most.
He can't succeed if nobody actually teaches him, now can he?
And school aren't.
So we have to.

"Not succeeding" in phonics at Y2 would mean failing the screener and probably not being able to sound out CVC words.
He can do that.
School have just assumed he knows a lot of other GPCs, told me he knows them, and now when he can't use them, they allow him to guess.
He won't learn them if he's not taught them, really, now will he?

You are focusing on phonics as if it is not just a means to an end. He has passed his phonics screening test. He is being taught phonics at school. Phonics is just one way of learning to read. Maybe it is proven to be the most effective in a group of people - I don't know - but that doesn't mean it's the most effective for your son.

There does come a point though when phonics turns into 'real' reading. After all you don't 'sound out' every word when you read, do you? And while educationalists may understand what teaching methods will get most people reading most quickly they don't know the exact process that happens in someone's brain in between seeing the word and understanding it.

So you can't even be sure that what looks to you like a guess is a guess. It may be partly a guess based on the phonic construction of the word. It may be a contextualised estimate. You have to let his brain do some of the work without input from you and the only way he'll be able to relax enough to let it do that is to stop assuming nothing is going on in his brain (i.e. 'he can't do it'), stop forbidding him to 'guess' and give him some space. Make it about enjoying stories, books, and pictures again. Let him find topics he's interested in and wants to know more about.

You could look at Toe by Toe

you can't even be sure that what looks to you like a guess is a guess.
When he sees "outside" and says it's "out and about" or guesses any word at all with the first letter of the word, yes I know he's guessing.
You cannot learn every English word by sight. In order to read any new word you must know the GPCs of English.
I'm not going to say this again, or engage with anyone suggesting using unproven techniques like guessing.