"DS was able to guess some of the words from the pictures"

[drspouse]

Comment back on DS reading record.
He is massively struggling with GPCs that school say he knows but all the books he comes home with have maybe 1 or 2 of the things he can't do plus loads of much harder words (e.g. adventure, science).
I decided not to bother reading school books with him and have got one of the ORT book packs.
I will tell them I'm doing this but given that we forbid him from guessing what do I say to this comment?
He's in Y2 and on band 5, he can decode but struggles with any alternative spellings or split digraphs.

The Bhagwan phonics harms none and benefits all.

We get that it's stressful. Just reading this thread has stressed me out no end.

Take the stress away, stop pushing him to learn to read and foster an enjoyment of stories instead. Who cares if he is looking at the picture on the page and randomly guesses the word 'castle' or 'monkey' or whatever?

Children's books have pictures in them for a reason. It is so they can get the gist of a story even if they can't read all the words so calm down, back off and let him do things at his own pace. Otherwise you'll end up putting him off for life.

Agree with keeping an eye on The book people. They often have a pack of 36 songbirds books for about £15. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the traditional tales books on there as well, but not often.

You say he struggles with attention. What is his retention like? Will he remember what you’ve shown him about the different ways of spelling /EE/ tomorrow, or will it be like a whole new concept for him?

In terms of the school books, I’d be tempted to just read the words you know he doesn’t know. Don’t let him spend ages letting him trying to figure it out. Or there’s only a few words and it’s just one sound in a word he’s going to struggle with, just give him the sound that he doesn’t know.

OP as you mention the importance of a good SENCO I’m assuming your DS has additional needs, if it’s anything ADHD or ASD related he may never master phonics as his brain simply cannot process the system, and you may well be better off meeting with the SENCO to get some methods which may work better.

He has already mastered phonics thank you.

Rafals he's probably been taught the GPCs he doesn't know so school thinks he does, but actually he's not retained them.

If I only got him to read words he's firm on, in the school books, I'd be reading all the words on a page bar about 1. If it was the other way round that would work though.

I'm getting confused. I thought you said he was struggling with some of the combinations of letters?

Ah, fair enough. Well the problems could well be related to his additional needs though - have you spoke to the SENCo about his reading ? They should be able to recommend some methods for you to do at home to help.

For somewhat inexpensive readers, I'd recommend Piper Books.

If seeing words with similar patterns interests him, then I'd recommend Ultimate Phonics reading list which has a page of similar words followed by sentences with those words. No guessing words and no pictures so can be helpful for kids who need more practice and review.

You can't learnnto read using only phonics.

Tricky words as they call them are not phonetical .

One of the targets under old NC is to use picture clues to work out unknown words. Not for every word but as a skill for when phonics won't work and for things such as working out what signs say of you are abroad etc.

It's entirely possible it was written as that's his current target. Or written because he did use phonics arc and did well and they've commented on that. But in this instance he used this particular skill.

Have you seen the scheme ‘Toe by Toe’? It’s aimed at anyone who struggles with reading, particularly decoding words. We use it in school with children who are dyslexic to great effect so it might be something to look into. It just takes 5/10 minutes a day.

As a pp said, he cannot continue to rely on phonics and needs to learn his tricky words. Absolutely and naturally he will guess and then with practice he'll get to know that word as it crops up more and more. Toe by toe good and you'll get it online cheap enough. I'd be getting him to read and learn those tricky words. How is his writing? How is he for reading words in isolation. Highlight maybe a tricky words per page to focus on, the most useful one, and point it out.

However, the new NC demands that children are given reading books that do NOT require children to use other strategies to read.

Of course children can be taught to decode using phonics alone - the vast majority tricky words are perfectly regular and the advice to treat them as such, and to highlight the tricky bit, is now years and years old.

It’s depressing to hear the myths about tricky words still being peddled some 15 years later.

That’s the old NC though. The new one doesn’t have that

The reason it was included in the old one was political rather than educational. Even in the late 90s the recommendation was that the government should be using syntetic phonics as the route to decoding in the curriculum/literacy strategies.

It sounds as if the books coming home are just too high a level? You’ve said he is put off by more than 3 words on a page, my dd (in yr1) is bringing home level 5 books, they are more like 20 or so words on a page. We find them a bit boring so now she just reads any old children’s books, if she can’t decode the word I tell her what it says and then she knows it next time. It doesn’t seem to add up with passing phonics screening though, from what I’ve seen it’s an awful lot harder than cvc words? I don’t think a child reading at level 3 (where there are 3-5 words on a page) would be capable of passing. I have no idea what GPC means though.

That doesn't bode well from the school does it. Sounds like you've already tried and failed with getting school to provide more appropriate books so it probably is down to you.

Would second the recommendation of book people and songbirds if you can get them - though again it's a small number of books for each sound.

Also try Oxford owls? You used to be able to get a number of e-books free though I may be out of date there.

I'd try incorporating some games too - for example if he's just learned ee sounds, write them out on little bits of cardboard and use them with fridge letters or more cardboard letters to make (silly or real) words. One word at a time uses less concentration than a book but still helps build skills. Or write him a mini note using sounds he knows including the new ones - again can be very short so it doesn't tax his concentration but another way to incorporate appropriate level decoding for no cost and a bit of fun.

"As a pp said, he cannot continue to rely on phonics and needs to learn his tricky words" this is backwards ...he can't rely on memorising "tricky words" and needs to have an effective strategy for reading every word he meets (including those tricky words) ...phonics.

"You can't learnnto read using only phonics" you can learn to decode using phonics and if your spoken comprehension is good then you can understand what you've read
"Tricky words as they call them are not phonetical ." Yes they are as are all written words.

I'm confused at how he managed to pass the phonics screening if he's only just realised that ee, ea and y can sound the same. It doesn't sound to me like he's mastered phonics at all and is being let down by the school.

I know he can't rely on them, and I know yes, they're made up of the sounds he's learning but they need to be committed to memory over time with practice nonetheless. You're right, my DS hasn't finished his phonics programme but does manage many of these, somehow, he's definitely searching for the word that fits though, eg tried weering for wearing before correcting si there is a certain amount of guessing. I said he needs to get the traditional sight words now because OP is v sure he knows his phonics very well..

Recognising a word to automaticity instead of sounding it out each time is the aim of any decoding method, including phonics.

Recognising a word ON sight isn't sight words.

eg tried weering for wearing before correcting si there is a certain amount of guessing

That isn't guessing - he's using his phonics knowledge.

True. [Proud]

"tried weering for wearing before correcting si there is a certain amount of guessing" obviously he's aware that the spelling can represent the sound /ee/ but realised that the spelling in wearing is represent the sound /air/ ...that how phonics works. No guessing required just knowledge of how our spoken language is represented in writing.

It sounds as if the books coming home are just too high a level?
They are labelled as blue, and honestly they aren't suitable for any level - too hard for him but too simple in terms of story for more advanced readers.
They are all dated 1990s and my guess is they got a job lot/kept them and just guessed which level they are.