Can an average child in YR2 go on to be a high achiever?

[User54546767]

DD is at a good primary, which achieves well above average across the board in the annual stats.

DD has met age related expectations in all her reports so far, and has just started year 2. She is bringing home White book band books (level 10) which are a stretch, but she can systematically read them. Purple band (level 8) she reads fluently. She writes well creatively, although not very long pieces, but still spells phonetically mostly. Maths took a while to click but now addition and a few tables are secure. She still can't tell the time.

She has excellent fine motor skills, an really impressive ability to construct and fix things, and a noticeable flair for non-verbal reasoning (i.e. recalling recurring patterns etc.). Her social skills are also excellent. She seems generally bright to us and all around her - until she started school she was ahead in all her milestones, and in the initial screening at school slightly above average in everything.

However for the last two years she has been set with the bottom third of the class much of the time (I assume there are some children in separate remedial groups which I'm not aware of) or at best the middle group. Her teachers have consistently said she is 'doing fine' and 'where she needs to be', but their impression and expectations of her in class simply doesn't reflect the child we know. I feel we're being fobbed off with the subtext of 'she's not that bright', when actually something isn't working and she's not meeting her potential.

I'm concerned that I'm going to look like I just have an over inflated idea of her abilities - and maybe I do! - but does school just 'click' a bit later for some children? Can she go from being average to being a high achiever later on in the years? The school obviously has the potential to get children achieving at those higher levels but I can't work out why it's not happening for DD.

Any insights would be helpful. And please be kind, I might sound like a bit of a dick worrying about this, but I just want DD to have the best chance in life she can.

I think working in school is more likely to be similar to sitting them down to work but the leaving them to it. (Possibly with the tv on.) So not like 1-2-1.
My just 6yo is probably not good at this (why despite being very bright didnt meet maths target in yr 1.)
She also likes to get things wrong to see the reaction (sigh).
So eg whilst being able to count in steps of 2,5,10 in yr r. And get all correct on in yr 1, managed to get lots wrong on writing one more and one less in yr 1.

However, i really dont thin BB 10 starting yr 2 is in any way low level.
Most i know are around purple. Also the teacher could be basing it on fluency/comprehension/remembering the story /and answering questions.
Tbh i would prefer dc to be good at andwering the questions rather than decoding because that is what is tested.

Given the discrepancy between home and school I’d be more inclined to consider it to be environmental than physiological. She sounds like a very bright girl in my DS previous class. Find out how noisy it is in class, whether she’s distracted etc. Can you go and sit in? That was how I found out DS’ class was so chaotic. I’m amazed he achieved as much as he did and most achieved far less than their ability. It was a class of 32 in a very affluent area.

Thanks naty and jdeah! Class work is like leaving them to it with the TV on - this is an excellent analogy, ha ha! And in that vein there are some times when she could continue to focus really well with the task at hand with the TV on, and other times and activities for which pen wouldn't touch paper. I guess there are some times and days when the class is more or less distracting.

We had considered sending her to independent school from Y3, but now we have several other children that would be a stretch, and she'd be the only one we could afford. I do wonder if she would do better in a smaller class with more attention. Or whether it's actually unnecessary to move a happy child, who will probably reach their stride sometime, other in primary or later (notwithstanding ruling out any sight problems or dyslexia)

*either

If she’s happy and private is a stretch I wouldn’t bother yet. Under exam conditions (no distractions) she would probably perform and it is good to learn how to focus. At the moment we can only afford to send DS1 private but he was struggling and we were driven to it by necessity. DD might not achieve so highly but she shows more signs of being able to cope in a chaotic environment without it upsetting her.

I’m reminded of a boy I taught in year 6. School had referred him for adhd due to his behaviour in class. When I first met him he was the most delightful, bright boy and just not coping with the classroom environment. Either he was bored or he wasn’t given help when he was stuck on a problem. In either case he acted out and appeared to be underperforming.

Maybe leave the teachers do their jobs, they are usually correct about children's abilities. If there are children being tutored & doing extension work that's obviously because their parents have high aspirations for them & they have an ability for the subject.
You can't whinge your child is at the bottom set if there's something you can do about it. What's stopping you doing extension work or hiring a tutor.
Parents are children's best educators. I still think it's a bit incredible that you are comparing her to other 6 year olds and you know do much about other children's abilities.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Spend more time focusing on your child & less on those around you & you might see the results you are looking for.
Also maybe you're DD is perfectly happy in her set as she's placed with children at her level. Her confidence might suffer dreadfully if she was placed in the top set with kids who are streets of her academically.

Spend more time focusing on your child & less on those around you & you might see the results you are looking for

Peppersneezes I am entirely focused on my own child. I find it hard to believe that if you had concerns about your child at school, that you wouldn't look to her immediate peer group for reassurance on how she was doing. If you read my posts, you would see that we provide an educationally rich environment at home, and I'm certainly committed to my child's education both in and out of school.

What's stopping me doing extension work? Let's see. I have four children six and under, and I work; I can't afford a tutor; she's six years old and I have no interest in pushing her beyond the bounds of the school curriculum. I just want her to meet HER OWN potential. My references to tutoring are in regard to how much that external input might cause the differences between children in her class. As has been said by other posters, if you've already done the curriculum work at home it is going to be easier when you encounter it in class...

I think you you want your kid to really excel you cannot leave it just up to the school.
You just need to get some workbooks and go through them with the child to reinforce what is happening at school.
The child cannot do everything within a school day. It isn’t possible.

The problem with schools, particularly in the state sector, is that many children won’t fulfil their potential at school. I wouldn’t have done so if I hadn’t move into private. Children who do extremely well in state schools tend to have parents who are very involved or they choose an extra curricular activity in which to excel out of school.

Even at private my mum helped a lot with my maths and physics, particularly at a level.

I don’t think I’m the only one who doesn’t know your dd, obviously the school knows nothing about her

Also in some ways you have to accept your lot. With several DC you can’t put as much emphasis (time or money) on your daughter’s education as you would like. But she’ll be getting loads out of having siblings and she’s happy at school. She will probably fulfil her academic potential later on in life but right now perhaps she’s more engaged with siblings, friendships and her own interests and she’s getting on ok at school.

Ignoring the bunfight, I'd go with the suggestion of test for dyslexia made earlier in the thread.

My DS is similar - by age 7 there was a huge mis-match between what he grasped verbally and written work/reading. Not that either of those were bad, just average.

One dyslexia test later - yes, he has dyslexia. Yes, he is also very bright. So it's the classic case of the dyslexia stopping him reaching his full potential, and his intelligence enabling him to develop coping strategies for the dyslexia, so, to the casual observer, he looks like an absolutely average, middle of the road student.

Which is fine, until as a parent you think about the level of frustration feeling like he's constantly falling further behind his friends, and feeling like he has all these ideas which he can't get down on paper. Not to mention the frustration in store for him being stuck in a mundane job because he couldn't get 4 A*s or whatever the entry requirements are for something that would interest him (things he's expressed an interest in doing - being a vet, being an architect, both massively high entrance requirements).

It's not a case of being an uber-competitive parent. It's a case of recognising that something's out of kilter here - not just from the parent's perspective, but from the child's as well.

Some kids though choose workbooks! I was one of those and so is DS.

You still have to help as a parent loads in private schools. That’s a mistake a lot of parents make and then they wonder why their kid is failing in private school.
My child is in private and they provide the structure and topics and guide but essentially the parents have to be involved!

You're contradicting yourself! You're comparing her to kids who are doing extension work & having tutoring but you said in the post above that you have no interest in this as she is 6 & you have no interest in pushing ahead of curriculum!!!
Why are you comparing her to these kids who are obviously in a different league to her, you're setting you're child up for failure.
The kids who are receiving tutoring and getting extension work have parents with a different mindset to you & are willing to put in the work so their kids will be in the top set.
Your teacher is doing a great job if she has grouped the kids with the highest potential accordingly.
You get out what you put in. You know your daughter's in an very academically able class but you're unwilling to go the extra mile.
I'm sure the parents of the top set have plenty of obstacles in their kids path to the top set too but they value their kids education more than that.
You're daughter sounds like she's in the right set especially as you said above you have no interest in working beyond the curriculum.

As above poster said you need to be involved in your childs education, a teacher can only do so much! I'm sure as she's in the bottom set hers gets the most attention & encouragement from the teacher & ta.
You mentioned money is an issue but workbooks from the works etc are only a couple of pounds. Your younger DC will benefit from watching your DD working & listening to you engaging with her.

You said you considered private school but can’t afford a tutor? I don’t think 6 years old need a tutor but some extra work at home can be very beneficial. If you don’t want to do this, accept that other people do and that other children are ahead of yours! I actually feel sorry for your dd and for all the teachers out there who have to deal with crazy parents!

New username I totally agree! Parents are convinced their precious DC's are little Einsteins then the poor child starts school & the parents like OP can't accept their child is average & low & behold there are DC who are academically very advanced in their class.
It's also a shock to the parents that alot of parents are very invested in their DC's education & ensure their kids will be in the top set by hook or crook.

peppersneezes000 exactly! There is nothing wrong with being average and OP’s dd is doing well, she needs to get a grip because this poor girl is going to feel like she is failing when she isn’t! If op’s dd really was, as bright as she says she is, she would be on one of the top groups and she would achieve above the expected for her age. Again, there is nothing wrong with just achieving expected, OP just can’t accept that!

Pepper and Newuser - you are clearly only interesting in chucking buns. Completely goady. You are deliberately misreading my posts. I have already addressed your obsession with "comparison" and I'm not returning to that.

Money is not a problem. If you read my posts you'll see I mention we do work books at home and they are available for her to do any time, which is how I have noticed the discrepancy. We do huge amounts of reading for pleasure and almost no screen time. At the moment I can't - or don't want to - afford a tutor as my childcare costs are very high during the hours I work (part time, so I can be around for the kids, you know, involved in their lives). If you are unclear, "extension" work means work that is above and beyond what is being taught to the class. It's not particularly controversial to be apposed to 'pushing' six year olds. It's insane that you are implying I'm a bad parent by not wanting to do this. We have separate funds from which we could pay school fees if we decided to do so. There's no contradiction there. No where have I said I think she 'should' be in the top set.

You contradict yourself, on one hand saying I should accept my child is not bright and leave the teacher to get on with it, and on the other hand saying I should be paying for extra tuition. Nonsense.