Can an average child in YR2 go on to be a high achiever?

[User54546767]

DD is at a good primary, which achieves well above average across the board in the annual stats.

DD has met age related expectations in all her reports so far, and has just started year 2. She is bringing home White book band books (level 10) which are a stretch, but she can systematically read them. Purple band (level 8) she reads fluently. She writes well creatively, although not very long pieces, but still spells phonetically mostly. Maths took a while to click but now addition and a few tables are secure. She still can't tell the time.

She has excellent fine motor skills, an really impressive ability to construct and fix things, and a noticeable flair for non-verbal reasoning (i.e. recalling recurring patterns etc.). Her social skills are also excellent. She seems generally bright to us and all around her - until she started school she was ahead in all her milestones, and in the initial screening at school slightly above average in everything.

However for the last two years she has been set with the bottom third of the class much of the time (I assume there are some children in separate remedial groups which I'm not aware of) or at best the middle group. Her teachers have consistently said she is 'doing fine' and 'where she needs to be', but their impression and expectations of her in class simply doesn't reflect the child we know. I feel we're being fobbed off with the subtext of 'she's not that bright', when actually something isn't working and she's not meeting her potential.

I'm concerned that I'm going to look like I just have an over inflated idea of her abilities - and maybe I do! - but does school just 'click' a bit later for some children? Can she go from being average to being a high achiever later on in the years? The school obviously has the potential to get children achieving at those higher levels but I can't work out why it's not happening for DD.

Any insights would be helpful. And please be kind, I might sound like a bit of a dick worrying about this, but I just want DD to have the best chance in life she can.

You can check for dyslexia earlier. I would check out a visual issue first though.

Is there anyone diagnosed with dyslexia in your immediate family? It is highly hereditary.

I would trust your instincts and just get on with finding out if there is an issue. I speak as the parent of a child who did have an issue and a teacher who has just completed their specialist SpLD qualification.

The visual issue thing is even in the last Freakonomics book, the authors point out that four in every thirty children will have a visual issue so it would save money in the long term if the government did a proper eye check on all children, rather than just the basic can you see out of each eye test they get at the moment.

I remember being outraged at being told my ds was one of the middling children in Y1. I was sure he was very bright. He is now in super selective grammar and loving it.

I also have a dyslexic ds who were had assessed privately. The school were zero interested in this despite the fact he was towards the bottom of the class. I wouldn't 'play the long game' particularly if you are in a grammar area.

@WhitefriarsDillyDuck

Statistically unless she has English as an Additional Language it is highly unlikely. Middle attaining pupils do not tend to progress to be higher attaining.

Statistically? Ok, what’s the statistic then?

OP, you can assess for dyslexia at 7. We had DD assessed shortly before her eighth birthday, following a few months of school refusal and it wasn't a problem. The results were very clear. You can also do online screens. Nessy dyslexia do quite a good dyslexia screen which can be used from 6 I think. Its about £10 . It's basically lots of online games which then create a profile which might pick up an issue. With dyslexia what you're looking for is an uneven or spikey profile. None dyslexics will score around about a similar level across the board. Dyslexic students will have extreme highs and extreme lows. A word of caution though, the screens aren't always a good indication of what's going on. I've heard of lots of kids screen as ok and then the full assessment tells a totally different story. Dd was only low in one area of the screen rather than several and so I dismissed it for about a year. I'd say if there is any indication at all on the dyslexia screen maybe pursue a formal assessment or if you're still feeling uneasy about it all in a years time.

Changemyname, you're right. I really feel for all the kids out there who don't get picked up and the current state system seems to be an exceptionally bad fit for dyslexic children who often have so much untapped potential.

I'm so glad we were in a position to move her to the independent school she's at now. It is a stretch financially but worth every penny in my mind. Their whole approach is amazing and she's happy, switched back on academically and thriving. She's found her spark again.

I am no pushy parent. Had she been average, that would have been fine by me , providing thats the level at which her potential lay. What I couldn't live with was the constant feeling that she was massively underachieving and we were turning a blind eye to it. I spent several years second guessing myself, knowing something wasn't going right for her but worried about looking like a pushy, jumped up tw*t for raising my concerns with school. In the end I just swallowed my pride and went for it. So glad that I did!

Thanks so much for the advice re potential dyslexia. I have a sibling who was diagnosed with ‘mild’ dyslexia but never had any additional help academically. Both DH and I were early readers/writers with no problems in that area.

How do I go about private testing? What kind of professional and what kind of test do I need? I’d be concerned that if I was to pay privately that the school recognise whatever professional I’ve used.

I know someone who had her child diagnosed with SN by a practitioner that the school wouldn’t/couldn’t accept, so it seems there are criteria for official diagnosis.

I feel we're being fobbed off with the subtext of 'she's not that bright', when actually something isn't working and she's not meeting her potential.

Had that with DS. We checked eyes and hearing and hearing used to flip to possible problem to not. He's done better the older and further up the school he's gone we think a more formal environment with clear instructions helps him.

Think it was hearing and short term memory issues.

We also did reading help at home dancing bears and later spelling work and mathsfactor - did it with DD1 as well a middle of the road at year 2. Both seem to benefit from more practises of basics than usual.

Primary schools never wanted to test for dyslexia always another reason not to and it was made clear if we did private assessments, which for us were very expensive, they wouldn’t be rushing to implement suggestion – they were also completely uninterested I am diagnosed dyslexic Secondary school tested DD1 with screening program but said she isn’t so no further interest in her spelling issues.

DS and DD1 are tops sets at secondary – and usually top in those classes. Though they are very much summer born.

DD2 seems to be a coaster – and her last two years teacher haven't pushed at all and dismissed our concerns only for in last few weeks suddenly she in the group for additional help - after reports and chances to speak to staff had gone .

chickenmayhem I think you’ve summed up exactly the head space I’m in now!

By "play the long game" I didn't mean do nothing. Not at all. I meant play the long game in terms of supporting her self esteem and broader education which will help whether she has SpLD or is average.

It's really hard getting support for a bright child with difficulties because they aren't outright failing. However my kids have suffered much more than they needed to because of one size fits all.

A SENCO said to me "Your kids are funny because they are bright and dyslexic.*

An educational psychologist would be the gold standard for assessment (for exam concessions etc) however a specialist teacher can also do really effective screening that would be helpful.

Particular schools or teachers can make it so much better or worse.

There might be a local dyslexia association in your area. I approached ours and asked for contact details of a good assessor. It was £300 for a specialist teacher assessment and £400 for an ed psych. I think ed psychs are considered better overall but dyslexia teachers sometime have a greater understanding of dyslexia and might get it more, if you see what I mean. Either will be able to do it though. Could you tell school that you're considering it but realise she is not a priority for them . I eventually said that I'd decided to have her assessed to rule it out for peace of mind. You could ask which type of assessment they would recognise before going ahead. If it turns out that she is dyslexic they are probably unlikely to do a huge amount if she's not right at the bottom of the class. However, I found that just knowing was hugely beneficial to my daughters self esteem and it was a starting point for us. Things have improved immeasurably since getting the diagnosis, even though not much help was forthcoming from her previous school.

My daughter also has a private dyslexia tutor. although quite costly she has helped with the areas she struggles most in . It might be an option if school are really unwilling to offer any support.

First of all though you need to know what you're dealing with.

This website should also allow you to search for assessors and tutors in your area. I would probably go with recommendations where you can though.

Hope that helps.

www.patoss-dyslexia.org/Tutor-Index-Landing

Thanks so much peggy and chicken. I'm going to look into visual problems and consider dyslexia testing if that doesn't bring any answers.

As a first step I'm going to have a general chat with DDs teacher about the reasons behind the current ability grouping, and emphasise the difference between what's in her school reports and what we see at home. I now have two full years of school to draw on, plus our observations of her over the summer (when we did lots of reading and activities) so hopefully it won't be quite as easy to bat away the question this year.

There's a dyslexia centre in Hampstead who are really helpful if you call for a chat. I got my Ed psych recommended through there. He was really good and did a very detailed report (sorry it was about £600 though!) It did include lots of recommendations including those you could do at home. Teacher did none of it though. I also moved my ds to independent school (for last 3 years of primary, I know this isn't an option for everyone/many people). The next school told me my DS was on the SN register although his school hadn't even told me that.

You have implied that the other children are only doing better because of the extra work they do after school and not because they are brighter. In other words if they were not doing any extra work your dd would be top of the class because she is naturally bright and the others are not

Yes sorry, we a long way north of London so our ed psychs are no doubt much cheaper, ha ha! I meant to say cost differs depending on area.

newuser I didn't say or imply that. The fact that other children are receiving tutoring and therefore more practise, and also extension beyond the curriculum, makes it very hard to assess if their performance in class is due to pure ability OR the fact that they have had more and deeper teaching. There's no implication my daughter would be top of the class in other circumstances. It simply makes the differentials between children more opaque. Many children in the class are obviously bright. Some of those are also receiving tutoring.

It does seem a bit odd that a child doing well at school must be dyslexic because she is not in the top sets..........Very Mumsnet!

OP, my DD did not really shine in primary. She has just done her GCSEs and was the top scorer in her school. As long as your DD Is happy at school, behaving and trying hard, don't worry. Do you everything you can to get her reading - it helps with literacy based subjects and maths/science. My DD 'inhales' books.

I've a June baby. Certainly in Yr2 she wasn't top set material, but she did leave school with way above expected grades.

Bit harsh, bertrand

Nobody has said 'must be dyslexic' they have said 'have you considered the possibility'.

There are enough red flags in The OP's post Bertrand and a family history too, so it's a possibility. I think everyone here who has a child with dyslexia has read the OP's post and can see similarities to their own experience.

And given that it affects 1 in 10 children, and can have serious ramifications not only for attainment but also future mental health, it is something best acknowledged and supported as soon as possible.

OP your DD is 6, you need to step back a bit from school reports (and I say that as a governor!) and stop worrying about what other kids are doing.

Are you worried that your DD isn’t achieving in school because the school isn’t meeting her needs ?