Can an average child in YR2 go on to be a high achiever?

[User54546767]

DD is at a good primary, which achieves well above average across the board in the annual stats.

DD has met age related expectations in all her reports so far, and has just started year 2. She is bringing home White book band books (level 10) which are a stretch, but she can systematically read them. Purple band (level 8) she reads fluently. She writes well creatively, although not very long pieces, but still spells phonetically mostly. Maths took a while to click but now addition and a few tables are secure. She still can't tell the time.

She has excellent fine motor skills, an really impressive ability to construct and fix things, and a noticeable flair for non-verbal reasoning (i.e. recalling recurring patterns etc.). Her social skills are also excellent. She seems generally bright to us and all around her - until she started school she was ahead in all her milestones, and in the initial screening at school slightly above average in everything.

However for the last two years she has been set with the bottom third of the class much of the time (I assume there are some children in separate remedial groups which I'm not aware of) or at best the middle group. Her teachers have consistently said she is 'doing fine' and 'where she needs to be', but their impression and expectations of her in class simply doesn't reflect the child we know. I feel we're being fobbed off with the subtext of 'she's not that bright', when actually something isn't working and she's not meeting her potential.

I'm concerned that I'm going to look like I just have an over inflated idea of her abilities - and maybe I do! - but does school just 'click' a bit later for some children? Can she go from being average to being a high achiever later on in the years? The school obviously has the potential to get children achieving at those higher levels but I can't work out why it's not happening for DD.

Any insights would be helpful. And please be kind, I might sound like a bit of a dick worrying about this, but I just want DD to have the best chance in life she can.

I’m surprised to hear others in class are receiving tutoring. And if so I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s pushed them ahead. Is she struggling with noise in classroom? That can affect bright and slightly immature children.

January with all due respect I think you are are a bit OTT. How do you know the ins & outs of the little ones in your daughter's group? What exactly makes you think your child is more academically able than these 6 year olds? Have you been rummaging through book bags on playdates?
Also you seem to know a lot about the top set 6 year olds & their tutoring & extension maths, how do you know so much about all these kids!
I also have a Y1 6 year old & I only care about her academic progress, actually at this stage I'd rate social progress higher. Thankfully she has lovely friends & her teacher says she's a joy to teach.
Bottom line concentrate on your own child but please explain what makes her more able than the kids she's been set with. Why do you think she's more able than then & how the hell do you know?!!

It's not a crime to be worried about your child's attainment at school. Learning is, after all, largely why they're there! Pussyfooting around that fact with statements like , "they're only 6 " and " back off and chill out" is ignoring the elephant in the room somewhat! I've reread this post and all I see is a mum who is concerned as to why her daughter isn't making the progress she perhaps should, given her ability at the start of reception. I can't see a problem with that. In fact, I'd go as far to say it's a parent's job to notice these things, advocate for your child and get them the help they need to achieve their potential. It is perfectly possible for children to underachieve at school and often if it's not a parent noticing that, then no one will . It can be a really confusing time and with the scant information provided by school, which is so often the case , there isn't much option but to compare to other kids in the class. Comparing with other kids is actually quite helpful at times too and pretty unavoidable when you're totally in the dark and worried your seemingly bright child is enroute to life's shit heap!

If there are underlying issues it's important they are recognised and dealt as soon as they can be. Really important. I have a friend who has a 13 year old who is on the verge of exclusion. The last year has been a living hell for him and his mum. She's beaten around the bush trying to get her concerns heard for 5 years while things have got steadily worse. Shes been fobbed off for years. Told she's overreacting. Tiles he's naughty, lazy , defiant, has a bad attitude, outgrown primary, too immature for secondary etc etc. She's finally started the process of having him privately assessed and it turns out his undiagnosed dyslexia is the root of these problems. At 7, interventions could have been really helpful and much more successful, at 13 much of the emotional damage relating to his learning difficulty has already been done. He is a bright kid who has been failed educationally and his future, sadly isn't looking that great at the moment. If only someone had have done something at 7 ! No one would suggest that a child with vision problems should go without glasses " because they're only 6". Why approach other learning issues in such an off hand way?

The age part is highly irrelevant, it's the fact that op is convinced her dd is more able than those in her set. I want to know how she's jumped to this conclusion as obviously the teacher who is highly skilled & qualified is of the opinion that this is where the child is best suited.
So what if other kifs are doing extension work, these kids obviously enjoy it as at 6 years of age they would not do it if they weren't enjoying it. These are the bright sparks that will be top set regardless.
Please accept your daugter for who she is & don't measure her worth by what set she's in, not every child is academic.
Also there more than likely are other mums of kids in the bottom set eyeing up your dd thinking the exact same thing as you - that their pfb's are so much more able than this dunce set they have been set in & the highly educated teacher has it all wrong & isn't doing her job!

But please do explain what set your daughter apart from her peers in her set? I haven't an iota about the abilities of the kids in dcs classes. My children are my priority & I'm much too busy with their activities/schoolwork/social lives (and mine!) to give a jot about what their classmates are up to. Never even crossed my mind! It makes me feel quite uneasy to be honest that such comparion are made. You seem to be highly up to speed on the abilities of top & bottom set, quite bizarre...

I am very surprised to see anyone suggesting the possibility of "dyslexia."

This child is meeting age expectations and the OP says she can read books "systematically"--I am assuming that what she means by that is that her daughter can sound out and blend words fine but lacks fluency and speed.

And the "spelling phonetically" thingif a child had dyslexic traits like poor phonemic awareness, poor working memory etc. I would expect to see spellings that make no sense, but spellings that "make sense" but are phonetic is more likely IME to be the sign of a child who has not quite reached the stage of understanding that memorizing difficult individual spellings "matters." My daughter was like this for ages"No, mummy, it's OK! I can just spell it like this!"

If she has the basic nuts and bolts of reading but lacks fluency (is my understanding here correct?) then the way to improve her reading is to do more of it. Do you read for pleasure as a family? Do you restrict screen time (for everyone, not just the kids?) Do you keep books in your bag so you can fit in reading time when you are out and about? Do you visit libraries and bookshops and encourage your daughter to pick out books she wants to try?

For writing, try the "pink and green" marking--it really motivated my daughter as it meant that her correct spellings were being recognized as well as her errors, so her writing was not just a forest of negative corrections.

My dd went into year 1 she couldn't write her name let alone read. She learnt how to do these things and was average for her age. She's just started at a grammar school.

It is very normal for children to learn at different paces and in stops and starts at this age. DS was exceptional when he started reception. Now he’s still obviously very bright but as others have learnt to read more he’s doesn’t shine in the same way (actually his social skills have improved which is most beneficial). DD has super friends and settled really well into reception. She’s doesn’t seem a jot as bright as her brother but she’s more organised, much more in control of her emotions and very sociable. Many actually bright children go to to underachieve if they have weak social skills/ability to manage their emotions. A friend who went into study maths at cambridge had been in lower set maths at primary. She was tutored to pass entrance into secondary. For now I would keep as eye on your daughter at home and perhaps chat to teachers if you’re worried.

Peppersneezes you are obviously a better parent than me. Good for you. I don't think I have indicated anywhere that I think my child is 'better' than the other children in her set. Or that I have shown an unusual level of interest in children in other sets, apart from to be taken aback that at the age of six some of them are having formal tutoring or set sessions of extension work overseen at home. Not all school communities are the same, so the fact you don't understand how parents might know things about other kids in the class only reflects the fact your school experience is different than mine. I have known some of the kids since they were toddlers, many since pre-school, and have had lots of playdates where the kids sit and draw/write/chat together, so it's pretty easy to form an impression. I am only interested in my child's own progress, and the fact that her abilities at home and we see are not reflected by what's happening at school. I have three other pre-school children, work, and have a good social life too - none of these things are mutually exclusive to taking a close interest in my child's world. I fail to see how my concern that my child reaches her own potential makes me such a bad person.

Kokeshi we are a highly literate household, read stories constantly, visit the library weekly, go to the theatre, talk about language, books and authors. The kids have virtually no screen time. I frankly have no time to watch TV or browse on my phone (four young kids) so I'm pretty much constantly conversing with them during the normal routines of the day. There's virtually nothing else I could do in the vein of "sharing more books" which is the stock school response.

I think there is a large part of not realising that words 'have' to be spelled correctly as she can express herself perfectly well phonetically! I do think that's an area where the school are a bit wishy-washy and perhaps I do just need to start doing some kind of positive re-inforcement of correct spelling at home to support her.

I think it’s becoming clearer that this is about you feeling superior. You keep going on about how you don’t care about other children yet you seem to know what every single child does and how bright they are! You should admit it, you are finding it hard to believe that your child isn’t as bright as all the others and she is only average and there is nothing wrong with that! It doesn’t matter if other child have tutors or do hours of extra work after school, it’s none of your business!

What you’re doing sounds great and I’m sure it’s setting an excellent foundation for a really good future.
However, ive found that there are some things that need the old fashioned hard work learning approach.
Things like timestables and maths. I did worksheets at home with my kids quite regularly to enforce what they were learning at school.
They were signed up to The Maths Factor, they did handwriting practice and wrote stories.
There’s a reason why parents sign their kids up to kumon and get tutors as the reinforcement really helps them move forward.

You mentioned the extremes of leave her to it/tutor her. In between I would say you are doing half the job already by showing an interest in her education. Parental support is one of the most important factors in educational development. Maybe make a game of spellings. When DS now in L6 was in ks1 they used to be asked to come up with 10 words a week with a certain sound eg. "Ch" as in church and then the next week "ch" as in champagne. They would look at all the children's words and then do a random spelling test of about 8 of the words. (DS was very pleased that he and his friend were the only ones that could spell champagne! DH said that says more about your mums than your spelling!)

DS also liked to do to do the workbooks you can get from WH Smith for his age. If you decide to get her some just a little bit every so often "playing school" lets you keep an eye on how she is doing, how ling things take her.

DS is a high achiever but placed in a lower set as they worked at a slower pace whicb suited him better.

"how long" rather than ling!

January, we are kind of in the same boat--very bookish household but reading took a long time to get going with my daughter.

Perfectly sound reading strategies but lacking in fluency and reluctant to read for a long time.

In our case, my daughter goes to school in another language as we live overseas, so English reading time is far less than it would be in the UK. She has just just barely started spontaneously reading for pleasure (7.5)--I really was beginning to wonder if she would ever get there, but I guess it just took time. Is your daughter able to sound out new words fairly accurately? As long as she has good strategies, it may just take time to "click."

As far as maths and things go: I think these things are all relative. If you are in a demographic where large numbers of kids are being tutored outside school (formally or informally), this will inevitably mean that the average level of attainment is higher. This means you basically have a choice--you can either not do extra work with your daughter and accept that her level will be in the lower half of the class (although this level will be absolutely fine by national standards) or you can aim to get her into the upper level of the class but that means you will need to accept that you will have to do some kind of extension work with her. I think it's up to you and neither option makes you a better parent, just slightly different values.

Newuser123 this isn't AIBU. The personal attacks when I'm repeatedly explaining that I am concerned there is a mismatch between home and school ability (in the same tasks) are simply goading. Implying my child isn't that bright and I'm deluded isn't useful as you don't know either of us. I don't know every single child, I know a decent chunk of them pretty well, which I have said. I'm not going to be responding to any more of your comments.

So what if other kifs are doing extension work, these kids obviously enjoy it as at 6 years of age they would not do it if they weren't enjoying it.

Doesn't always follow-- if the parent says Tuesday and Thursday you go to learning club and Friday you do Kumon there is little that a 6yr old can do to resist it. I know it isn't the culture everywhere and there will be dc in the class who are naturally just very able, but there will also be children who are only ahead in maths because they have already covered the material either at home or with a tutor.

The OP needs to decide whether to join the rat race or to let their child learn at their own pace. Actually it was being in the lowest set around this age that spurred dd on. She said she was fed up of listening to them all talking about when they were next going to MacDonalds rather than doing their work that maybe she would do a few times tables and read a bit more at home. We didn't intensively tutor our dc, but many parents do.

You might have hit the nail on the head. DS despite being a superb speller at the beginning of year 2, actually got worse throughout the year whilst others improved. He had lost interest in spelling because he could express himself perfectly well already and wanted to progress without putting in the hard work. Actually it was the wrong school for him and he’s just moved to a great private which is working very well for him. He’s enjoying reading again having felt demoralised and disinterested by the end of year two in his previous school. His sister is more of a plodder and very patient and will take longer to achieve, but she will keep going.

Also I am interested to know what your child is doing at home that she’s unable to do at school. If it is similar work it sounds like it’s the classroom environment that’s problematic (noise/working under pressure etc.).

We had my son tested by potential plus in year one and that was so helpful in reassuring us of what we believed. On the back of that and lack of support from his school we decided to move him.

Also, the reason why I did worksheets and practice at home wasn’t because I wanted my kids to race ahead, it was because I didn’t want them to feel that they weren’t capable and turn school into a negative experience.
It was interesting to see that as my kids got better at maths, they just started enjoying it more and didn’t mind doing the work.

Because I tutor (outside of the house) our house is littered with the workbooks which DS loves to do. Perhaps having more resources at home of a similar style to what they use at school would help. I’m not in favour of external tutoring for little ones (I only do so if I’m asked and I mostly tutor at 11+ and gcse). Some like to race ahead and are not actually secure in the fundamentals. Schools do have a tendency to set the children without providing much scope for movement between sets so I wouldn’t take too much from the set she’s been placed in. I know lots of bright children in lower sets.

Going back a few years but my brother (born late August) was definitely an 'average' achiever in Primary school. He was in lower half of the class in year 1-4 and average in years 5 an 6. Not sure how they describe 'SATs' results these days but he achieved Level 3 (English), 4 (Science), 4 (Maths) at the end of year 6.

Our secondary school was not in a great area, and expectations were not great. However, he did excel by the end, was best in his year group and achieved A* GCSE's, 'A' A Levels and a first class degrees from Russell Group Uni. He is now very successful in his career.

Do remember that what they are doing in school is preparation for SATS. Not necessarily reflective of real life. Some children are better at that sort of work than others. My son’s current project at school is space and they’re encouraged to bring in anything they’ve done at home. But several years ago he did masses of personal projects at home on space (DH is an astrophysicist) so he feels he’s done space. He’s now really into the Egyptians at home so he won’t be showing off anything space related at school! Just an example of how a child might be excelling at home but it might not be evident at school.

Jdeah she shows higher ability at home in reading (for pleasure); writing (in terms of the length of writing, ideas and her hand writing); and maths (in terms of being able to do correct sums, or something like work out how to do fractions - not even covered in class yet). This is when we sit with her one to one, and also when she's feeling inspired and will suddenly start on a bit of a workbook or something. The work books that come home are showing pretty scant output and lots of errors. This is what I mean by not understanding what's going on in school.

The more is discussed here, the more I think it's either something is forcing her to work hard to really concentrate to get things down at school under time constraints (eye-sight, lexical problems of some sort); or there is something in the environment that's distracting her.

As I mentioned, she is socially very switched on, and although she doesn't mess about at all, I wonder if her attention is simply not 'on task' if other kids aren't concentrating around her, or if she's just being distracted by things that aren't her work! She's not a 'head in the clouds' type, but she is quite influenced by peers.