Serial, long-term bullying of 5 children by one girl over 3 years - what should school be doing?

[PrincessPeaHead]

I would really appreciate your thoughts. This is incredibly long, but it is a really long running saga.

There is a girl in DDs year 4 group, let's call her Anna. She arrived in Year 2, was put in the other class to DD. I immediately started hearing stories about how she was being nasty to various girls, but especially to Bella. DD didn't have much to do with her because she was in a different class. In year 3 DD was also in a different class to Anna, and I heard she was still nasty and now also bullying Clare and Dora, who were in her class. I regularly asked DD if Anna was "behaving nicely" towards her, to be told that DD tried not to have much to do with her, that she kept her head down, but was told all the terrible things she had done and said to B, C, D and others.

Beginning of Year 4 I find out htat DD has been put in A's class, and there are only 5 girls out of a class of 14. I have a meeting with the HeadMaster about something or other and I also say "DD is very concerned about being in A's class, it is well known that she has been bullying lots of people, I am unhappy that it hasn't been resolved, keep an eye on it". He assures me that a very close eye is being kept on the situation.

Anyway DD goes off for a 3 day school trip this weekend. On picking her up from the bus on Sunday she is in floods. We put her to bed thinking she is knackered. Monday am she is sobbing, saying she doesn't want to go to school, she is tired. I keep her off school and she sleeps until 10.30am. Tuesday she is sobbing, says she doesn't want to go to school - and I finally winkle out of her that it is because she doesn't want to see A who has been verbally abusing her for 2 years, but is particularly bad this term. Every time she sees her she calls her a pig, a loser, ugly, nobody likes her, etc etc etc.

Anyway I have since found out that child B's parents complained three times in years 2 and 3, were told it was being "dealt with", and the bullying stopped so they left it. Child C's parents complained 3 times in Year 3, were told it was being dealt with, the bullying slowed down, and they left it. Child D's parents complained 2ce in Year 3, once in Year 4, she ws told that the parents were being called in and it was being dealt with so they left it.
It appears it is now DD's turn. I am NOT LEAVING IT. I have asked for her immediate suspension, her return on a one-strike-you-are-out basis, a full review of all the policies and guidelines etc, an anti-bullying day or programme, staff training etc. And I've sent copies of correspondence to the board of governors.

My questions (finally) - what is best practice in this situation? How should the school have handled these various complaints? What is it reasonable for me to expect the school to have done? As far as I can see the Headmaster has not been involved at all - complaints have all been made to various teachers and the Head of Lower School, the Head has not spoken to the child although teachers have, and I think the parents were called in to the Head of Lower School.

I expect I'll have a meeting with HM tomorrow or monday - what can I legitimately tell him would have been done in a school operating approved bullying policies to a best practice standard?

If you've got this far I'm extremely impressed and grateful
xx

Pph, I think I got a glimpse of this horrible situation last night on another thread?
I think the school are very much in the wrong here. Our school with similar class sizes is firmly on the case with children who exhibit this sort of behaviour, by watching and intervening initially. But if it continued then they would be suspended or even asked to leave. It has happened (not in ds' year) where the child has been incapable of mending its ways (because the parents were in denial).
Either the school is not being explicit and persistent enough with Anna and her family or they are scared of them.
Your dd is very fortunate to have you to stand up for her.
I know what it is like to be the target of a methodical and unchallenged bully, it made my primary school life hell for years. I wish you lots of luck in sorting this out.

On the other hand, you know, what sort of message do children take away when adults continue to allow bullies to get away with it?

I do feel, yes, there needs to be help for bullies, but fgs, I think we've gone a bit too far in the other direction, because when we allow them to continue their behaviour with no real negative consequence, they learn that it's okay to behave like this.

And the victims learn that it's 'kill or be killed'.

Why should young peoples' entire childhoods be ruined by violence and bullying?

And the physical assaults that happen on school campuses, especially at secondary level, among teenagers who are legally adults.

WTF?!

If someone assaults another person in the street, it's a criminal offense, but somehow, if it happens in a school - which is also public property - it's permissable?

What does it take for people to learn that mollycoddling bullies is NOT OKAY, another Columbine?

I think regardless of what the school have done about it the fact that this has been going on for two years and your dd has only just told you means that there is a tacit acceptance that this behaviour is ok and must be endured and ignored.

Which presumably is the culture at the school and therefore needs to be challenged.

The fact she is the daughter of one of the teachers would make me livid about it actually. The parents are therefore under no illusions about her behaviour and the effects it will have.

I would deffo speak to the parents

I just would

in an angry way like an old fishwife

I think I wuold teach my dd to punch the other girl on the nose as well (ok maybe not but thats what I would feel like)

[breathe...breathe]

ok

how about demanding a meeting with girls parents and school. And the children too perhaps?

Oh my goodness everyone thank you so much. You all know I'm not one for welling up on mumsnet generally speaking, but I'm really overwhelmed by all of this. I am a bit all over the place - I have my efficient, killer-lawyer, this is going to be sorted out NOW on MY terms thing going on but also my "Oh god why didn't she tell me, how dare she do those things to my dd" emotional fragility jostling for attention too. Bit of a rollercoaster.

So.
The mother is a teaching assistant at the school. I didn't say that first off because I wanted reactions without knowing that. It makes it even worse, I think.
Father is army officer, I have no reason to think she was expelled frm any other school, she just moved to the area with a new posting. Both parents very nice, very gentle, absolutely ineffectual and A and her sister speak to them in such appallingly rude and disrespectful terms that it stops most other parents in their tracks. Doesn't seem to bother their own parents though

This isn't just "teasing" - it is real verbal abuse. Also things like hiding a girl's games kit at the bottom of a dirty rubbish bin so she would be late for games and get into trouble, telling a v tall girl that she shouldn't be in the girls changing room, she should be in with the boys because she looked like a boy, calling a girl into ahiding place to "tell her a secret" and when she was there telling her that everyone wanted A to tell her that they all hated her and thought she was stupid and ugly.... it is bullying, definitely.

I also feel that the school has failed A. If they had really tackled this 2.5 years ago, when A first got to the school, with clear boundaries and sanctions, they might have been able to modify her behaviour and she would be a happier and more popular girl. As it is her behaviour is completely entrenched, all the girls think she is horrible (but are far too nice to say so), and she is likely to keep bullying at senior school and encounter problems there too. It isn't fair on her either.

I'm so relieved that you all think I've done the right thing - whoever said SENCO should be involved is spot on - her views on both the bully and the victims in this will be v important I think, so I'll make sure I ask her to be present at the next meeting.

I just don't want to fail DD, having promised to sort it out. And I feel I have a social obligation to the whole community to stop this behaviour completely, otherwise some other little girl will be next in line for bullying after DD>

It is so difficult

In PPH's circumstances particularly, i.e. the parent works at the school, I would still demand the school sort it out.
Good luck PPH, let us know how you get on, it's heart wrenching isn't it?

I've struggled with the idea of telling the parents.

I think I have to let the school deal with it, but if they don't, get dh and me to go and see the parents at their home one evening

I'd be a bit quicker to do that if I thought it would have much effect, but frankly from what I hear discipline has been a bit non-existent so I'm just not sure it would do the trick.

I think suspension will be a big enough shock for the girl and her parents to get them to seek some outside help for her and them(psychologist, family therapy, whatever)

Puddle you've hit the nail on the head. WhenI said to DD why didn't you tell me (in a subtler way!) she basically said "well she is nasty to everyone, and she always has been, and people have complained a bit but once Y complained to a teacher and was told to stop telling tales"

pph - privately- don't feel you have to take it on for the whole community. Concentrate on YOUR dd. I really feel for you, it comes through in your posts how upset you are and I totally sympathise.

Can you take her out?

So there she learns the message that bullying behaviour is to be tolerated.

And in that sense, the school has massively failed.

she sounds horrific

I take back everything I said about the parents

demand that she is suspended

Why not take it on for the community?

I think the main reason for a lot of ills in society these days is because there's ZERO sense of collective responsiblity - or personal responsiblity, for that matter - on anyone's agenda.

I don't think a parent can demand a suspension but I think you've done the right thing in putting it in writing and copying in the governors.

I am not recommending this approach .. but my sister told her that when a boy was bullying her 8 year old DS (who is now a huge hulking 13 year old) .. she got hold of him in the playground, held him still, bent down and whispered in his ear 'If I ever hear that you are bullying xx again I will be straight down here with xx's father to deal with you. Stop it Immediately!"

Now I couldn't recommend that approach and was stunned actualy .. especially as said bully was son of a friend of theirs (although that's maybe why) .. but it stopped and immediately

Enid - I really believe that the community route is the best one, as it lets the girls challenge the bullying from a position of strength, in that they are acting as a group.

I'd certainly want to make sure that any measures that were taken didn't just involve the bully moving on to the next victim in that, that still gives the message that bullying is tolererated in the school community overall, just not for PPH's dd, or the one before that, or the one before that.

Collective responsibility is absolutely the resolution to this in my mind.

PPH, we also had an 'Anna' at the dds school. She was (still is) very clever in that she would 'target' other children for a few weeks at a time and then move onto another one. Each child would get 2 or 3 weeks of hell each term, but she would then ensure she was really nice to them (usually when the teacher was watching) and draw the children in to tacitly accepting her behaviour towards her next 'victim' (ie child full of relief that they weren't being picked on so didnt complain when she did it to someone else).

This had been going on since reception. Every term I complained, every term I was told it had been dealt with and the situation calmed down, until the next time her 'turn' came round. In the end we pulled dd2 from the school. The headmaster then denied all knowledge of any previous incidents, maintaining that no-one had told him this was going on. Made no difference to him though, as said chld is STILL doing the same thing, is still getting called in to be spoken to and is still continuing regardless. The problem with girls bullying, particularly at the younger ages, is that it is often seen as the fault of the victim. They should 'toughen up, ignore it, sticks and stones etc'. Yes, dd2 did need to toughen up a little, but she was 4 and 1 month when she started school and I'm not sure how 'tough' you should expect a child to be at that age.

Sorry, been rambling, it's still a sore point 18 months on. I think the child should be excluded every time an incident like this occurs, otherwise she will continue throughout the school and onto high school. Well done for taking such a strong stance immediately, I wish I had.

I have to take it on for the community, because at the root of the whole thing is the school's failure to deal with it. They don't have policies, they don't follow their own guidelines, they have no apparent reporting structure

I have 3 other children coming up behind and I want a really robust anti-bullying programme in place to protect all of them as well

does that make sense?

berries I wonder if children like that ever really change if they've been allowed to continue for so long?

I'm pressing for suspension but at the back of my mind I guess I'm assuming that on her return she won't be able to help herself, she'll keep bullying, and will eventually be removed/expelled

It is sad that her parents and the school have let this happen, in a way

oh pph how awful. Yes, the school have failed her and by that measure, all her bullying victims too.

I would also ask for a suspension. But I suspect, unless the school are willing to take a massive role in this, as her parents are ineffectual, nothing much will change.

I am a bit to say this but I had words with a boy who was being incredibly violent with one of mine. I know the parents and knew their words meant nothing to this child - I happened to be in the playground when he attacked and I went over and had a word to him (not nasty, just firm) and he apologised and leaves mine alone now - however, it's not a long term solution really and if you want your children to continue in this school, then they really need to pull their finger out.

It makes perfect sense PPH

I also imagine your productivity in producing a healthy stream of future pupils of the school give you a good deal of strength too

yup dogs bollox.
the tea party idea is interesting and quite attractive but I'm a little worried it is "ganging up" - ie teaching the wrong message?
Not sure
One girls mother has arranged for A and her daughter (D in the case above!) to do riding lessons together and she reckons that has helped.

Well it has helped D, it hasn't helped my DD who is now her victim

Christ it is difficult. A needs a bit of therapy or something, doesn't she?

it does DB
and I don't get a forces discount on top of a staff discount, either

DD2 also had her coat thrown down the boys toilets by someone who 'had been told to' by this girl. Thing is, teacher didn't even speak to me about it (dd had gone to after-school that day) and HM only did something because I was helping in school and moaned about it. (Not sure how that follows with his later assertion of 'knowing nothing' about any bullying incidents ). Coat had to go straight in the bin.

non on on o

tea party v good

strength in numbers

you could always, with DD's permission, invite 'anna' for a playdate

then you can watch her yourself and admonish her with your house rules

maybe she's just lonely and needs to be shown how to make friends / act well?

It all depends on how the school handles it - if she just gets a gentle don't do it again sort of telling off - then hell yes she's going to be fine for the rest of that day but start all over again the following day. However, if she and the parents are told in no uncertain terms that it will be not be tolerated and she is watched - constantly - then the problem will be sorted. It's got to be the hard approach or nothing IMO.

I think if one was being kind, one might suggest that the SENCO work with Anna on helping her to socialise effectively.

OTOH, it sounds like Anna has a lot to learn and without cast iron control of her behaviour both in school and at home, the burning platform which is needed to force her to want to change just won't be there.

I would have no problem squaring the 'ganging up' thing at all. You are merely giving the girls the skills and esteem that they need as a group to keep themselves safe.