Teacher wouldn't let DS go to the toilet

[Louise1178]

What are the standard rules for toilet breaks in year 1?

I'm livid with the teacher as yesterday ds 5, wet himself at school. He says when he came in from lunchtime he needed a wee, but the teacher wouldn't let him go, he said he asked again after the first lesson and said he really needed to go, but she refused again. He held on until the end of the day but wet himself on the way to the toilet.
The afternoon runs for 2 and half hours with no afternoon playtime.

Would it be unreasonable to complain?

Starlight

If I was aware your DS needed a breather that would not be a problem. It would have no bearing on my policy of not letting the rest of the children out to use the loo.

If your children want to leave the room in that lesson they maybe you need to make it more interesting.
Hahaha! Are you for real!?

Yes. We're not educators, we're children's entertainers. We're not there to educate, we're there to do nothing more than occupy them during the day.

I bet you also think bad behaviour is justified if the children are bored too.

And then when it gets to GCSE and they've got to do hard work and don't want to because they've had years to being entertained you'll be just cool with that?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it's just a ridiculous suggestion to make and the only people who ever say it are people who have never taught or have previously taught and have escaped into management, or worse education consultancy.

I'm sorry if parents don't like it. However direct school hours, I make my rules for my classroom and they are applied to everybody. Parents dont get to dictate that their children can use the toilets when they see fit. I don't know many teachers that allowed parents to call the shots in their rooms!

If my child came home upset about wetting or soiling them self, or developed a UTI or constipation through being stopped from using the toilet, I can assure you I would be calling the shots on whether anybody dictates their toilet use.

susiestrips

Fair enough, If your child needed to go the loo in my lesson send them with a note, and they can go. If not they wait until breaks

I can assure you I would be calling the shots on whether anybody dictates their toilet use.

My school rules are not during lesson time, but staff have discretion. If we all just let kids out as they like we'd quickly lose that discretion. I don't allow out after break or lunch. If they are desperate I let them go but keep an eye on who requests.

Any parent who feels they can ASSURE me they will be dictating how I run my classroom would be passed straight to senior leadership because I am simply not paid enough to deal with the minority or parents who feel entitled to call up in a confrontational manner in order to tell me how to do my job (be it toilet breaks, seating plans, homework, detention etc).

Thankfully, most parents dont carry on the way some keyboard warriors do on MN. if they have a query they calmly call and we discuss the issue in a way that is constructive.

If my child came home upset about wetting or soiling them self, or developed a UTI or constipation through being stopped from using the toilet, I can assure you I would be calling the shots on whether anybody dictates their toilet use.

No you wouldn't. do you honestly think schools don't have daily issues with parents thinking they can override school rules if they feel it suits? How exactly would that work If every parent felt they had that right? That's why we have classroom rules that everybody follows.

So sick of parents who don't have a clue how to manage a classroom with 30 individuals, shouting the odds about that they will and won't tolerate.

Oh no I will quite happily support school with pretty much anything else, be it behaviour, homework, detention, etc etc....

But refusing to allow a child to use the toilet is wrong.

No adult would be forced to sit and squirm and potentially piss themselves in front of their colleagues, so why is it ok for a small child?

Surely you must realise comparing adults at work and children at school is not a fair comparison. Unless it is a medical condition children have enough breaks to not need to go to the toilet during lesson time.

This disheartens me.

My son was unable to wait to go to the toilet in year 1 and wet himself so often because the teacher refused to let him go we had school refusal. He went at break and at lunch but could not physically hold in a wee. This was not a diagnosed condition, just an urgency.

We saw the head teacher and he made it possible for my son to use the toilet during lessons.

Although a pp has linked the ERIC website I will quote directly from the Bladder and Bowel Charity ERIC website

Banning toilet breaks during lessons can also create continence problems when children are forced to hold on or stop drinking and/or eating to avoid the urge to use the toilet. This is from the experts in bladder health.

Also as a volunteer in a school I am often asked to watch a class for 2 minutes whist the teacher goes to the toilet. We aren't all machines.

susiestripes
Here's the thing. Say it's allowed on demand then teacher tries to teach new information and they have a flow of kids in and out. Then it comes to group work but Charlie missed the first 5 kins so his group need recapping and then Kate was out and missed the middle bit etc.

It's not unreasonable to expect children to learn to go at break and lunch. Most schools allow discretion and contrary to what people on MN claim the vast majority of teachers outside of early years don't have kids wetting themselves.
Break times exist for a reason. One is to play and the other is for bathroom breaks. Why should a child use their breaks responsibly if they know they can go in and out of lessons?

I'm also finding that there's a massive increase in fuss relating to toilets and this on demand culture for water bottles e.g. drinking 500ml bottles in an hour and then turning up to the next lesson 'desperate' for the loo, only to drink more because there was time to fill up the bottle at break but not use the loo.

If a parent wanted to discuss an issue with me then I'm happy to do that. But no way on this planet am I dealing with all this "I can assure you that I will be dictating!' crap that is so readily dished out on MN.

Also as a volunteer in a school I am often asked to watch a class for 2 minutes whist the teacher goes to the toilet. We aren't all machines
And my guess is that teachers hasn't had a break since they got into work at 8am because they were busy with the children at their break time and didn't fancy waiting 4 hours until lunch.
That's not like for like comparing to a child who is in later, has set breaks etc

There are many days I can get into work at 730 & the first time I get to go to the loo is 12:30 ish at lunch. I can't just leave 32 teenagers unsupervised though.

Actually, stoing

Oops don't know what that random message was!

So right Maisypops

At times I don't get to go to the toilet until dismissal at 3:30, the Children have a twenty minute break and an hour lunch to make sure they have a wee, that is when they should use the loo, not during lessons.

My DD, who hadn't had an accident at home since she was 3, started coming home every day from reception either wet, or busting for the toilet.
She insisted she wasn't allowed to go at the end of the day.
Teacher insisted she could and told DD so.
It continued. I don't think either were lying, but I think my DD thought she'd be in trouble if she asked at that point, or she would quietly put up her hand and be ignored.
Asking the teacher what happened won't always give you the truth.
Maybe the teacher was pleased that she could wait for the end of the day. I wasn't cos it was wet pants again and having to send her back into school to wee.

DS had no problems that I know of at school. Though he goes really regularly at home. I started home educating him from year 7. When asked what he likes about home ed, he first thought is still 'I can go to the toilet when I need to'

At my kids school we do have the problem that teachers expect the kids to wee at lunchtime. The lunchtime supervisors do not let the children into wee during lunchtime play. Who should the kids listen too?

I often need the loo 10 mins after I've just been, especially after a meal time.

The average child aged 5-7 goes 7 times a day for a wee, this excludes night.
There are a number of reasons why a child might go more than this and indeed less. Not everything at this age is diagnosed.
Stress/anxiety can also cause increased urination.
There's also something called avoidance. Normally the child ignores the need to wee and this can lead to bed wetting. Stopping a child can have the same effect.
I don't know if things have changed but years ago if under 7, not many tests where
Done on children to find out why they were wetting themselves. Something to do with how the bladder works and a hormone. My dd was in year 3 when she was diagnosed. Rarely she wet herself in school because most teachers weren't robots. Sometimes she was denied and although everything seemed fine to the teacher, but they didn't witness the effects later and having to get her out of the anxiety in the following days even with regular teachers.
Can you also imagine the bullying she went
Through because of control freaks who couldn't comprehend that bladders are different.
And yes I was that parent who went in and made it known that if she asked she went. It's something that I wasn't tolerating. And yes I know what it's like to be in a class.

I have a few concens over kids not being allowed to go.
1 Some will have (minor) behavioural issues and may not go when they should.
2 kids will learn not to drink much at all to avoid the problem leading to constipation and dehydration.
3 schools seem to have very few loos. So if there is an expectation they all 30-60 go at break of 20mins into 2 maybe loos. Just in case they might need to go 2-3hrs later...
Im sure we used to have more like 6 loos. I think this would encourage unhealthy obsessive behaviour in very young children.

I dont agree all should go anytime either but some flexibility is needed.

Not all kids will want to advertise they feel sick or may have D.

Im imagining some missing playtime queuing for the loo.

The op DS should have gone at lunchtime. I teach year 5 and never let them leave to use the toilet during lessons

vicky
He's 5 years old. Not year 5, if that makes any difference to you.

I am so, SO glad that I am not like the teachers on this thread. Rest assured that we aren't all like this and a lot of us understand how human bodies work and sometimes all people, whether adult or child, just need a wee, even if they've not long been! The child being distracted comment has really upset me. If that were my son, who is in Year 4 and has bladder issues, he would be incredibly upset if he was stopped from using the loo.

I think some teachers just have massive power trips. If you genuinely care about children and their well-being, toileting just wouldn't be a massive issue. Plus, you know, as one of you has stated, it's our job to be educators. I can assure you a child who needs a wee and is distracted will not be learning during that lesson.

I know that, the earlier they get in the routine the better. I was just saying I teach year 5 and do not let them go except at break and lunch.

"Just in case they might need to go 2-3hrs later.." 2-3 hrs after lunch they will either be going home or already there.
In many schools the longest period between breaks is 1.5hrs in some without an afternoon break (more usual in KS2 ) this might be 2 hrs.

Very sad reading this thread. I've been an infant teacher for 38 years and have never refused to let a little one go to the toilet. Completely ridiculous to say no. Do you teachers who have this rule have children of your own? If you do, surely you know how unpredictable bladders are at this young age.

Dear teachers,

Please allow children (especially younger ones) to use the toilet AT THE END OF THE DAY. (After class has finished for the day).

It is a nightmare when you have just got everyone into the car, or 2 minutes into the 20 min walk home, only to find that someone has held it in all afternoon and is now desperate.

Thank you
A parent.

Children are denied during lessons. They can go at the end of the day if they have been made to hold it in all afternoon.