My daughters school has really let its children down

[jude3184]

I guess I'm writing for some reassurance really. Reassurance that I've not suddenly turned into one of those mother that moans about anything and everything.

Friday just past I received a letter from my daughters school (as did every parent) stating that on Monday there would be a school treat into the woods to build dens etc. Wonderful I thought. What I lovely idea. It wasn't until I read the letter a little more indepth that I realised that actually, the trip was only for the children that had earned enough dojos (or merit points for those wondering what dojos are).

My daughter wasn't really bothered either way as she only needed 3 dojos to make it on to the trip ao she made sure her homework was handed in 5 days early that time. She was proud as punch and really looking forward to the trip. She even took a change of clothes in her bag.

Well, I picked her up that afternoon and she was very upset. Apparently her (and 3 others) were made stay behind as she hadn't made the 'grade', so to speak. The entire school left and had a wonderful afternoon together whilst the poor ones left behind were made do maths for the afternoon.

I'm by no means a mother that feels that my daughter should go just because she is my daughter, I'm also not against her losing dojos of she doesn't deserve them. My issue is the fact that these poor children were left feeling that they aren't good enough by the schools standards.

I feel it sends out a really negative message, especially when she had tried so hard to be allowed to go.

I spoke to the school headteacher who firmly sticks by it being a perfectly acceptable thing to have done. I asked whether the same would have happened if only one child hadn't earned enough points and she said she would have left them behind also.

I have no issue with something like this being a class or team effort whereby the whole class misses out of they don't all work together but to single children out just seems very dated and wrong. I feel it's going to make children feel that their best isn't good enough.

I also raised the point that when I was in school, sports day was held and there were winners of a race ranked 1st-4th place. They abolished that system because they didn't want children to feel like losers if they didn't win so instead just gave everyone a certificate for taking part. So why is this the case when quite clearly they're happy to let children feel bad about themselves by leaving them behind.

Another point my daughter raised was that some children that she considers naughty (she's only 8 so she means children that have challenging behaviour) are rewarded these points or dojos simply for 'behaving' so In turn, got to go in the trip, whereas a child that in to the school considered 'normal', that behaviour is expected so goes unrecognised.

I'm so very frustrated and I am seriously contemplating taking the matter further but I don't want to sound ridiculous so please, don't mince your words. If you think I'm being silly please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

ReallyTired Wed 25-May-16 22:51:23

"I suggest that the op requests a meeting to discuss her daughter's behaviour. If her daughter's behaviour is not poor then the teacher will have a hard time explaining WHY she missed the trip. ...
The op can ask the teacher/ head teacher why her daughter is not on a behaviour support plan if her behaviour is so poor ti warrant not getting enough dojos."

This sounds an excellent strategy. Either the dd's behaviour is bad enough for it to make it inappropriate to take her on a trip - and in that case why are they not involving the family and setting out a plan- or else it is not.

Our school has a "ladder' - you go on merits 1, 2, 3, 4 and then ultimately step 5 for good work, good behaviour blah blah. And if you get to Step 5 by the Friday, you get to choose a little treat (one of which is tea with the headteacher, shudder ).

My DD very rarely has got to step 5 and I know it's not because she's behaved terribly, done poor work, it's just that she's ALWAYS hard working and well behaved etc etc and it's not always noted. Whereas some, shall we call them, more challenging kids are at Step 5 nearly every bleddy week and get a lovely treat.

Tis all proper bollox but DD and me and DP are aware of the silliness. if it came to her staying behind in school while most of the others went on a trip because she was only on Step 3 or something, I'd be very, very cross.

This is just plain wrong. I am appalled. A school day out is for all the children, not just the favoured ones. Fine to give some sort of detention or whatever for misbehaviour, but to leave four children sitting doing maths when the whole school is out and about is just plain sadistic. The head may think it is a great idea, but I am even more surprised that the staff do not put him/her right. I can understand that a child might be left behind if they were completely unable to behave in a civilised way on such a trip and might be in danger, but to keep them behind because of a petty accumulation of randomly allotted demerits is quite unbelievable. And to make them do maths as if it is some kind of punishment! - how to put children off maths in one easy lesson.

The whole psychology of this is wrong. I am truly gob-smacked by this; and I know that the governors and Head of the primary where I am on the governors would be truly shocked about this. Your poor lass - I am so glad that you took her out for her own treat.

I think it's unfair too and I'm quite strict and not adverse to kids missing out on things because of poor behaviour choices.

My DS2 once missed out on an end of year movie afternoon because on that morning, just before lunch, a substitute teacher didn't like the fact that when he'd finished his maths he took out his book to read. Apparently it was rude. However this was standard practice and encouraged by his usual teacher as it kept those who were finished more quickly occupied.

Anyway he lost his first ever Golden point (he was 10 by this time, so it was his first lost point in 6 years) and because he didn't have time to earn it back, missed out on the movie afternoon. Ironically he had to spend the afternoon in the library reading (together with a boy who'd thrown a shoe at a teacher).

I'm all for ensuring discipline and behaviour and engagement but that wasn't fair. DS learned an important lesson that day but I don't think it was the one intended.

YANBU OP

How utterly shit, humiliating and demotivating. We experienced similar. DS has Asperger's and his school have several reward systems. Anyway, I explained he can't compete with the kids on the same basis so could they set individual goals. They didn't. He was at the bottom of the bloody chart for 2 terms despite making progress in his social skills. I took it up with the Head and teacher. To their credit, they took on board why we thought it was an unfair system. They scrapped the indivudual system and implemented a team based one. I just don't understand why there is so much emphasis on rewards - will all hell break loose? Do kids become so unmanageable?

I don't like the system you describe but there is nothing wrong in rewarding those who find 'behaving' difficult, when they do behave in an acceptable way. It is no different from rewarding any other effort.

I don't like the system you describe but there is nothing wrong in rewarding those who find 'behaving' difficult,

The issue is because it's at the expense of those who do behave

Emphasis on rewards? It mirrors life - you work you get paid - get noticed get promoted - done

Why is it at the expense of those who find it easy to behave?

My problem is in our case the kids who are quiet, shy and academically middle of the road are a bit invisible and have very few merits while the ones who are a pain in the backside have merits thrown at them at every opportunity to encourage them

From an earlier poster - happens in most schools - naughty kids gets rewards for behaving properly - properly behaved kids get nothing

I think the central point here is that it is based on a system of "merits" which can be fairly randomly allocated, and children who are quiet and unobtrusive miss out. It might possibly be justifiable if the exclusion from the trip was based on the number of "demerits" - i.e. if you behave appallingly often enough you will be missed out.

Schools should be helping, guiding and encouraging children to behave as part of a community in a co-operative way. This sort of divisive action is quite wrong. It really smacks of sadism - the head on a power trip. It is pretty sickening.

You can acknowledge the efforts that all children have made and this includes those who have had to work hard to moderate their behaviour, some of whom will find a school environment difficult or wil be getting little support at home.

She isn't poorly behaved, in fact she's a really level headed, laid back 8 year old. She likes to please people ao likes to make sure she goes out of her way to help out away lunch tables at lunch time and has received god knows how many certificates for her kindness she shows to others. I get that kids are kids and if she did do anything to promote them taking dojos or merits away then that's fine also, I don't expect them to give them out willy nilly, what I do expect is fairness so yes, the children that did have 'enough' do deserve recognition but not in a way that humiliates or singles out the others or makes them feel negative about themselves which is why I'd have been happy for it to be a team or class effort but 4 out of a whole school to me screams of the head being on a power trip.

Have they given you any hint as to why she is one of only 4 children who have not earned enough dojos?

Acknowledging effort is fine as long as you make sure children who find it easy to behave and work can also be rewarded for something.

Why is it at the expense of those who find it easy to behave?

I wouldn't say it is at the expense of those who find it easy to behave, but those who are quiet, do what they are suppose to all the time and nothing special or nothing disruptive don't get noticed and may miss out on 'merits'

I think it's an appalling system and feel very sorry for OPs daughter

My DS's school has a reward token system, but it is for the whole class. When the whole class has earned enough tokens they get to do something fun. Individual kids can earn them for doing something special or they can earn them as a class, e.g. by everyone lining up nicely. They get really excited as they get closer and encourage each other to behave. I think that's a much nicer system than leaving some kids behind.

As a teacher, I'd say it's fair. Your DD clearly didn't earn enough points for the trip. Did she lose them for behaviour or something. She understood she had to earn them but still didn't do enough to make sure she got on the trip. Actions have consequences- that's what schools and parents should be teaching our young people.

I would ask the school, teacher or Head, what the criteria was for going on the trip. I don't think it necessarily wrong to exclude children if they understood clearly what they needed to do to be included, had been given opportunities to achieve it and hadn't done so, but to tell them they were excluded on the actual day was cruel.

Totally unfair I don't understand the point system which includes a trip at the end. Surely a certificate should be enough and everyone has the opportunity to go on the trip ( that's how it works at my DS school) What's her teacher like? In primary school I had one teacher who was awful to me took an instant dislike to me (I think she taught one of my brothers who misbehaved) I asked to go to the toilet one day as I felt sick she refused, I went to ask again and I ended up throwing up all over shoes, she was livid. She still never let my DF collect me to go home. This same teacher refused a boy in a class the toilet he peed his pants this was year 4-5. Could it be her teacher is treating her differently to the others? Seems odd that she's well behaved but not able to go on the trip.

I would take it further and if your not happy look at a different school your DD shouldn't be made to feel worthless.

Don't know what's up with these primary schools read on social media in Chester a mum forgot her child's dinner money so the school refused to fed her and gave her water a slice of toast in front of all the kids!! My DS lost his dinner money that I gave him but they still fed him his dinner and asked the dinner money to be replaced.

This is just awful and I would be complaining very loudly.
For the record my son was one of those "naughty children" (SEN but still deemed naughty) he constantly lost golden time, points, trips out. It made not one scrap of difference to his behaviour just made him bitter and resentful.
Children with behaviour problems should be rewarded when they make an effort to behave well when they find it hard. Just as a child who finds maths hard should not be punished for finding it difficult.
So many mainstream schools operate outdated downright nasty behaviour sanctions sounds like the OP's is one of them.

Excluding her from the trip was wrong for sure, but there must be an issue here.

96 kids got enough points. A lot of them will be shy, quiet, middle of the road and they all got enough points.

I think there's something you don't know, and you need to find out what it is and why this is the first that you're hearing about it.

taking her out for a day will not have helped

At the DC's school, trips are given as rewards for 100% attendance for the term. DD was gutted that she couldn't go because she'd been ill. That's the only reason my DC are ever off.

What a mean school. What are the excluded children supposed to learn from this, I wonder... Why you can't trust your teacher, how it feels to be humiliated, that they are not as good as other kids...

As regards Random rewards systems. They have always existed and are never fai dd1 had it Sussed at age 6 when she told me she was going to be bad for a week so that when she was good again she'd get lots of merit points !

Dds school have similar.

They have this system where children get merit marks and at the end of each term they are counted and they are given certificates bronze, silver, gold and platinum.

dd is perfectly behaved, she'd never been told off or in any kind of trouble, She works hard and goes above and beyond what is expected of her.

She's in yr 6 now and like the other well behaved children she has never gotten beyond bronze, whereas the dc who are challenging regularly get platinum (with a prize). One boy bust another's nose and would have been excluded from school ( teacher told class ) if it wasn't for the SATs, a week has not gone by without his Mum being called into school, but he's already got platinum.

Dd isn't too fussed because she doesn't behave because she wants a prize, she behaves because it's what's she should be doing, she will say so and so didn't swear today so got 5 merits, or so and so didn't punch anyone today so got extra points. The children fill the charts themselves and colour in extra merits too, dd won't do this as she says if she's not earned them she doesn't them. Dd gets 20/20 every day for her spellings but never gets points because they only get them when they've done better than previous score, she says some of the kids deliberately get one wrong so that they can get points the next day.

What does bother her is when she's made to miss out because of others, they have this other system where the whole table misses extra play if anyone in their table misbehaves or gets more than half the spellings wrong. Explaining why some children get more merit marks for encouragement is one thing, but how do I explain why she is kept in at playtimes for something she can't control. It's something I had to speak to school about because dd missed whole playtimes for almost two weeks in a row because of the behaviour of others sat on her table.

She's also part of a "buddy" scheme which involves setting playground up etc, so the days she been kept in for someone else's behaviour she's been unable to do her "buddy" duties and it really worried her that she'd look untrustworthy to the playground teacher.

Class teacher wasn't in the day I spoke to them so it was the head and she actually didn't believe me that dd had missed over weeks playtime because she always behaves and gets all her spellings correct she wanted to verify first, she rang me back apologising and said that as a one off it's meant to make some dc think about how their actions impact on others but dd and other children should not be regularly missing out and that she's bit to worry about missing the buddy duties as she will sort it out.

She also said she was going to talk to the staff about paying a little extra attention to those who are quiet and do get on with their work and behave because they can get overlooked.

I usually back the teachers up and We've never complained about the system until y6 because she was very upset at missing something she'd committed to and letting others down through no fault of her own. She'd ask me if I knew a way she could help xx not punch or swear so that she wouldn't miss playtime and her buddy duties.

If she'd have been to miss a fun trip I'd have been cross too OP.