My daughters school has really let its children down

[jude3184]

I guess I'm writing for some reassurance really. Reassurance that I've not suddenly turned into one of those mother that moans about anything and everything.

Friday just past I received a letter from my daughters school (as did every parent) stating that on Monday there would be a school treat into the woods to build dens etc. Wonderful I thought. What I lovely idea. It wasn't until I read the letter a little more indepth that I realised that actually, the trip was only for the children that had earned enough dojos (or merit points for those wondering what dojos are).

My daughter wasn't really bothered either way as she only needed 3 dojos to make it on to the trip ao she made sure her homework was handed in 5 days early that time. She was proud as punch and really looking forward to the trip. She even took a change of clothes in her bag.

Well, I picked her up that afternoon and she was very upset. Apparently her (and 3 others) were made stay behind as she hadn't made the 'grade', so to speak. The entire school left and had a wonderful afternoon together whilst the poor ones left behind were made do maths for the afternoon.

I'm by no means a mother that feels that my daughter should go just because she is my daughter, I'm also not against her losing dojos of she doesn't deserve them. My issue is the fact that these poor children were left feeling that they aren't good enough by the schools standards.

I feel it sends out a really negative message, especially when she had tried so hard to be allowed to go.

I spoke to the school headteacher who firmly sticks by it being a perfectly acceptable thing to have done. I asked whether the same would have happened if only one child hadn't earned enough points and she said she would have left them behind also.

I have no issue with something like this being a class or team effort whereby the whole class misses out of they don't all work together but to single children out just seems very dated and wrong. I feel it's going to make children feel that their best isn't good enough.

I also raised the point that when I was in school, sports day was held and there were winners of a race ranked 1st-4th place. They abolished that system because they didn't want children to feel like losers if they didn't win so instead just gave everyone a certificate for taking part. So why is this the case when quite clearly they're happy to let children feel bad about themselves by leaving them behind.

Another point my daughter raised was that some children that she considers naughty (she's only 8 so she means children that have challenging behaviour) are rewarded these points or dojos simply for 'behaving' so In turn, got to go in the trip, whereas a child that in to the school considered 'normal', that behaviour is expected so goes unrecognised.

I'm so very frustrated and I am seriously contemplating taking the matter further but I don't want to sound ridiculous so please, don't mince your words. If you think I'm being silly please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

This is completely shit. The head's attitude is terrible. A reward for maybe a small number out of each class, fair enough, but to leave just four children in the whole school behind when the rewards system is completely subjective in the first place is misguided and inconsistent with their sports eg policy, not to mention plain old mean and unfair and unhelpful to young children's self esteem. And how stupid to position maths as a punishment! My blood would be boiling too OP. Well done you for doing what you felt you needed to to help your DD feel better. I'd make a formal written complaint to the head since she was not helpful in person, CC the chair of governors.

That's awful. I hate it at my DCs' school when a select few children are chosen for a special activity; but to exclude 4 out of 100 is terrible. Schools are all about inclusion these days, but this policy is based on exclusion. (A bit like inviting the whole class except one child to a birthday party). Would it be worth speaking to the parents of the other 3 children?
I have worked in schools and frequently see prizes, housepoints etc given to children whose behaviour is challenging - they are rewarded for behaving at the required standard. Meanwhile children who are polite, considerate and conscientious often go unnoticed which is extremely demoralising for them and their parents.
I think the Head needs a rethink about his school's rewards system!

But you were all for it when you thought your dd was going

The only part the head would budge on was that 'next time' she would notify parents of system sooner so that they were fully aware. I question why she didn't tell the parents in the first place...probably for fear of the backlash.

I have spoken to one of the other mothers who's son has a poor attitude towards learning anyway and she said its set him right back to square one. Also another mother told me that the headteacher had informed her that all the parents of excluded children were prewarned that their child wouldn't be going on the trip. Another lie. I had no idea until My dd came home upset that she couldn't go.

I absolutely wasn't all for it. I think the system sucks regardless. A would never think it was ok for children to be excluded in such a way. My daughter was all for trying to make up the dojos because she wanted to go so I supported her efforts in trying. I rang the school the morning of the trip which didn't even take place until the afternoon, very upset with their intentions.

I agree it is appalling. They are a school and should know a thing or 2 about a child's mind and how such actions may affect children. If i were you I'd make an official complaint, that is not the way to punish a child. It is humiliating for a child.

When something similar happened to DD with other classmates (DH and I had to talk to her about it and advise on how she can deal with it, DH is way better with such things than I am) We talked about it on the day, she didn't say anything more on the topic after that day but she stayed upset for days. I remember when I was a child and had a very nasty teacher who bullied me, I never told my mum about it, though it messed with my head so much. I still remember how it made me feel.

Did the children know before Friday that this trip was on offer as a reward? If not, it would be grossly unfair. But in any event it's absolutely wrong that parents weren't told before if they could help children earn dojos.

Is there an issue here about how they're using school or PTA funds? I would have thought that, as a minimum, if they're going to have a merit system for paying for this type of thing, the terms should be absolutely transparent and objective, and should be publicised well in advance.

seee if this helps www.gov.uk/complain-about-school

That is a truly awful system and I can understand why you are upset. It is cruel and shitty. I can't believe the head is defending it. And I can't believe they are lying about it either.

I'd be losing my rag over this and would definitely taking it further.

Can you get together with the other parents and go 'on force'?

Or request an on-the-record meeting with the head?

Governors would also be good.

That is truly, truly crap. I don't know how it works at your school but at ours there is a very larging helping of 'random' in the giving out of dojos - different teachers/TAs give them out in different amounts for different things (and sometimes for the same thing). Children with very similar behaviour/attainment/effort get widely differing numbers of them through luck/chance. But it doesn't matter much at our school because the only thing at stake is the chance of a new pencil eraser.

It sounds like a shit school. There's no point in complaining to the governors because in a small school they will see their role as defending the head at all costs, and spend the meetings basking in the light that they think comes from his fundament. Do you have other schools within reach? Because this one sounds grim.

That's a very very bad system in my view. I'm all for healthy competition and stickers and certificates (provided there is equality of opportunity so that they are accessible to all that put some sort of effort in) but not to that sort of event, that just singles children out. If it was an adhoc game in the playground and the class decided not to let 3 children join in they would be pulled up for bullying, surely. This doesn't feel much different.

That is really shitty,so glad they don't pull this crap at dds school,the super attender awards get me riled up enough,(illness and hospital appointments count against you)
When I was in primary(80s) we had a trip to an ice rink for the pupils who sold the most raffle tickets,first two years of it happening I wasn't close,managed it the 3rd year and got diarrhoea on the way to school so missed out again,if that happened now to my dds,I would refuse to let them participate and just arrange a trip myself

Not good at all
Am glad to hear you supported your DD more than the school - such a crazy and unkind idea doesn't deserve parental support

I was with you until you said this

I have no issue with something like this being a class or team effort whereby the whole class misses out

My son has been punished for the behaviour of other children - even when he's not been in the play area or class at the time - DS has no control over their choices and shouldn't miss out because of other kids.

Agree Dojos are rubbish unless there is a weekly review and the "shy/quiet" kids doing the right things get noted

Why is it that your DD didn't have enough dojo points? Is it because she hasn't read at home enough?

I used to work at a special school that had a similar system. However points where given out in a consistent way and children all knew what their targets were. The majority of the children easily had enough points for the rewards afternoon. The children who didn't have enough points were children who 100% deserved to be punished. Three was never a case of an overlooked well behaved child losing out. The naughty children were made to spend the whole afternoon writing out the school rules. I think it did improve their behaviour.

Why is it that your child failed to get enough points? Did she lose points or did you fail to listen her read every night? It may well be worth asking about her behaviour and attitude to learning.

I work in a school and there is absolutely no way that we would ever do this. Do leave out 4 kids out of 100 is bloody Draconian. Even out of a class of 20 it would never ever happen. What does it teach the kids other than maths is a punishment and they have no right to fun? In the almost impossible even of a child being excluded from an event like this the parents would know well in advance and the kids would know that it was a possibility if targets weren't met. And they certainly wouldn't be doing maths - they'd be doing something that was still fun but educational.

I'd bang this right up to the governors quite frankly. And the LEA. It stinks.

I'm even more dubious that such a system could be fairly applied in a special school ReallyTired, with so many individual differences and such a variety of reasons why there might be challenging behaviour from some of the children.
As the OP says I feel it is generally an inappropriate and old-fashioned approach to children's behaviour in school.
I'd like to see a more positive approach generally.

Each child at special school would have their own targets -

Could be anything - playing well, achieving a maths or swimming target - so they are awarded according to their personal ability

In a state school - let's say a child who behaves really badly - hits swears etc has a lesson where those things don't happen - they get a dojo - whilst Sally Ann never swears or hits or interrupts - gets nothing - because she hasn't done anything outstanding - or exceeded expectations

It's wrong - like I said it needs to be reviewed to see who's left behind

From my experience working with children I'd say that in both mainstream and special schools any such system is so fraught with difficulties as to be a non-starter.
Start with the premise that every child is doing their best in their individual circumstances and I think any school or teacher or TA will be on a much stronger footing.

I think the only point you can really make us that a reward trip must be for a minority, not for the very great majority, in order not to be damaging for those that don't get to go.

What do they tell you about your daughter at parents' evening (is there any danger you think she is better behaved than she really is?)

"I'm even more dubious that such a system could be fairly applied in a special school ReallyTired, with so many individual differences and such a variety of reasons why there might be challenging behaviour from some of the children."

It does work. Its a form of applied behavioural analysis.

I have seen a similar system in action, but it has to be very clear from the outset what type of behaviours lose points and what type of behaviours again points. Both parents and children need to know how many points are needed for the rewards afternoon. For such a system to work parents and children need warning that they are risk of missing the treat.

All the chidren in a special school have a detailed IEP and clear targets. They were in small classes and were rewarded points for doing their work and extra points for special effort. There were points awarded for correct uniform, having their home contact book signed, punctuality, and kind behaviour. They lost points for behaviours like fighting, swearing, assulting staff or walking out of lessons. The school also had other sanctions like internal isolation, but no after school detentions as all the children went home on buses or taxis.

I think for a dojo points type system to work the behaviour of every child has to be carefully tracked. It should never come as a shock to either the parent or the child if they miss out on the treat. Ideally there needs to be a computer system that allows teachers and parents to see why a particular child is either losing or failing to gain points. If a child is not gaining points then targets need to be altered.

There is a big difference in excluding children from 10 minutes of their break for inappropriate behaviour and excluding children as you have described! In my view that is unnecessary, devisive and cruel! I would be complaining.

That's awful! I feel for your dd and am glad you kept her at home for a special day with you.