My daughters school has really let its children down

[jude3184]

I guess I'm writing for some reassurance really. Reassurance that I've not suddenly turned into one of those mother that moans about anything and everything.

Friday just past I received a letter from my daughters school (as did every parent) stating that on Monday there would be a school treat into the woods to build dens etc. Wonderful I thought. What I lovely idea. It wasn't until I read the letter a little more indepth that I realised that actually, the trip was only for the children that had earned enough dojos (or merit points for those wondering what dojos are).

My daughter wasn't really bothered either way as she only needed 3 dojos to make it on to the trip ao she made sure her homework was handed in 5 days early that time. She was proud as punch and really looking forward to the trip. She even took a change of clothes in her bag.

Well, I picked her up that afternoon and she was very upset. Apparently her (and 3 others) were made stay behind as she hadn't made the 'grade', so to speak. The entire school left and had a wonderful afternoon together whilst the poor ones left behind were made do maths for the afternoon.

I'm by no means a mother that feels that my daughter should go just because she is my daughter, I'm also not against her losing dojos of she doesn't deserve them. My issue is the fact that these poor children were left feeling that they aren't good enough by the schools standards.

I feel it sends out a really negative message, especially when she had tried so hard to be allowed to go.

I spoke to the school headteacher who firmly sticks by it being a perfectly acceptable thing to have done. I asked whether the same would have happened if only one child hadn't earned enough points and she said she would have left them behind also.

I have no issue with something like this being a class or team effort whereby the whole class misses out of they don't all work together but to single children out just seems very dated and wrong. I feel it's going to make children feel that their best isn't good enough.

I also raised the point that when I was in school, sports day was held and there were winners of a race ranked 1st-4th place. They abolished that system because they didn't want children to feel like losers if they didn't win so instead just gave everyone a certificate for taking part. So why is this the case when quite clearly they're happy to let children feel bad about themselves by leaving them behind.

Another point my daughter raised was that some children that she considers naughty (she's only 8 so she means children that have challenging behaviour) are rewarded these points or dojos simply for 'behaving' so In turn, got to go in the trip, whereas a child that in to the school considered 'normal', that behaviour is expected so goes unrecognised.

I'm so very frustrated and I am seriously contemplating taking the matter further but I don't want to sound ridiculous so please, don't mince your words. If you think I'm being silly please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

If only four children have been left to behind I imagine that their behaviour records have been looked at very carefully. It has been a considered and diliberate decision to punish the OP daughter in this way.

I agree that she should not have been given maths to do as a punishment. The time should have been used to discuss her behaviour and reflect on why she failed to have enough dojo points. Maybe a PHCSE type lesson would have been better for the four who had been left behind. Maybe the OP daughter should have been handed a list of everything that she lost dojo points for.

Low level distruption robs children of the opportunity to learn. Unlike secondary schools primary schools do not have the option of using after school detentions when a child has had too many consequences. My fourteen year old had a detention because he forget his exercise book three times in a row (each time he was give a C1 and 3 C1s= after school detention.)

Are you at all worried about why she didn't have enough points? Surely you should be supporting her to hand in homework etc etc. You need to ask why she didn't have enough points and how you and the school can support her in getting them. Important life lesson, you have to earn your rewards. Yes, I am a teacher and my first thought is the only children excluded ( very rarely) would tend to disrupt the event for the others. I feel there is a lot more to this than we know.

Your average teacher wants to see kids happy and enjoying school. They don't really get their kicks from seeing kids left out. The fact that only a few kids were left out makes me wonder if their behaviour over the course of the term had been a problem.

"There is a big difference in excluding children from 10 minutes of their break for inappropriate behaviour and excluding children as you have described! "

The children I have described all have very complex needs. Some of them really struggle to sit still or they have autistic meltdowns. Inspite of their disablities they still need to learn to live in the real world where you cannot get away with appauling behaviour.

If a child is constantly losing golden time or ten minutes of their break then the punishement is not working. A child who persistantly talks in class maybe deserves a shock like being one of four not to go on an outing to improve their behaviour.

"My issue is the fact that these poor children were left feeling that they aren't good enough by the schools standards."

It is their behaviour that is not good enough not the child as a person. Those children can decide how to behave. If they make poor decisions then they should suffer the consequence of those decisions. Those children deserve to feel sense of shame.

If a child has behaved badly all term then why should they be able to make up the points in a couple of days before the outing. The real world does not work like that.

Hello, my son is aged 8 like your daughter. At Easter the majority of the class went on an Easter egg hunt and he was left behind. He is a great bright kid but has in the past been over looked with Dojos and merits, he falls under the radar. I asked him if he was upset, he said no because I didn't have enough. I think kids get a very different perspective on things and perhaps we worry a bit too much about it all and put our anxiety on to kids. Im sure it will be forgotten and she will get a reward somewhere else, Im sure she isn't as bothered as you are and it will be forgotten. Im not that worried to he honest and my son handled it really well, that is life Im afraid.

To me this is a policy that needs questioning. I would instigate the complaints system of the school by complaining to the head teacher about the policy being unacceptable and unfair. They will have to reply in writing, which will no doubt say she thinks it is fair. You can then escalate the complaint to the governing body, which is where the questions need to be asked is this really part of the behaviour policy of the school.

We stopped doing Dojo points because they were a faff, to be honest.

It does sound unfair on the face of it, but at our school children are only ex
cluded from doing things if they have been repeatedly warned about their behaviour.

At the moment the children are currently earning team points. Points are given by staff throughout the school, from Reception to Year 6 , for good work or helpfulness or behaviour, etc. The kids LOVE it, and look forward to each week to see who has 'won' . They are very competitive and the points are ' just because'....there is no overall prize, just the pride at the end of term that their colour team won.

Have there been any meetings to discuss the op daughter's behaviour?

Team points might work with younger children, but older children couldn't really care less if their team wins.

If the treat is sometime major like a whole school trip I am sure that teachers take great care to make quiet well behaved children aren't excluded. Believe it or not the majority of teachers like children. They know that the handful of children who miss the whole school trip will spend the afternoon crying. It must have been a wretched job for the person assigned to look after them. I doubt that those children got any maths done. I feel the time should have been used to discuss why they had missed the treat.

I feel the op should think about her parenting. What was she thinking of taking her child out of school for a pamper day. Why could the pampering not wait for the week end?

Why are people assuming that the OPs dd's behaviour must have been bad for her not to accumulate dojos?

As other posters have mentioned, some schools/teachers mainly use merit points to improve the behaviour of children who are struggling: that means that a child whose behaviour was fine from the start and who always submitted work on time would end up with fewer merit points because there would be less to improve.

"Why are people assuming that the OPs dd's behaviour must have been bad for her not to accumulate dojos?"

Most schools have lots of invisible children who get overlooked. Often a good 70% of the class are in that position. How did all those children get their dodos?

4/100 is a tiny number. I imagine that the op daughter was the only one from her class not to go.

With a scheme like this what happens about children with long term sickness. There is a little boy at my dd school with leukaemia. It would be unfair to exclude such a child from the trip because he had no opportunity to get dojos. The special I used to work at got round this problem by giving all children 200 points at the start of term. The naughty children swiftly lost their points, the children with a lot of sickness didn't lose points so still got the treat.

I suggest that the op requests a meeting to discuss her daughter's behaviour. If her daughter's behaviour is not poor then the teacher will have a hard time explaining WHY she missed the trip. If you talk to the teacher and the head teacher first then your complaint to the governors will carry more clout.

The op can ask the teacher/ head teacher why her daughter is not on a behaviour support plan if her behaviour is so poor ti warrant not getting enough dojos. If there is nothing wrong with the op daughter general behaviour the teacher will feel seriously embrassed.

I know quite a lot of schools that use these points. Are you sure your daughter has been honest with you about your behaviour? Have the school not warned you? All thr kids I know (LOTS!) rack the points up....

That absolutely stinks and I would be livid.
Surely the other teachers felt bad about leaving four kids behind? Was this a power trip by the Head?
Your poor DD and the others have missed out on an enriching educational experience because of what sounds like spite. I would definitely be taking this further.
Although you can't undo what has happened, the damage has been done and those children won't forget this. You need a full apology for this.
Such s horrible thing to do, and I imagine that class teachers would have follow-up activities relating to this activity, so what does your DD do then?
I'm so angry on your behalf!

Shockingly awful system. I am currently looking to work as a TA in a primary school, I would not work in a school that had this system. I would most definitely complain if it was my DS.

Even if the child's behaviour has been 'poor', they should not be excluded from a school trip.

I may be wrong here, but do Ofsted take parent complaints on board? I'd go to governors first, but may be another route to try to encourage change (sorry if not!)

Yep. I would honestly look at following the formal complaints procedure at the school so you can then complaint to Ofsted. You have to do the school procedure first before Ofsted will accept your complaint though. It is a terrible way to punish/motivate children.

I think Reallytired is bang on. If your ds's behaviour is so poor she has to miss out on something that almost every other child got to take part in, you should be informed about it and strategies to help her should be put in place to help her.

I would use the school complaints procedure, write to the Governors and complain to Ofsted too. The awarding of dojo points seems to be done on a whim. It's crazy.

Why are some of you suggesting that the OP's daughter was misbehaving? She hasn't said that. What she has said that some badly-behaved children were given points for behaving normally. Where is the fairness in that?

I think I'd be wanting to take it further to find out how the school justified not taking her.

Why didn't she have enough dojo points? Almost every other child in the school had enough points. If she's not been behaving well enough to earn them, why wasn't the OP made aware of her behaviour? If she hasn't been working hard enough (whether with homework or in class) to earn them, why hasn't OP been made aware that her level of effort is a problem?

To be one of only 4 children in an entire school excluded would suggest there's either serious problems which a parent should have been made aware of before now, or that there's a serious problem with the way these dojo points are being handed out. Either way I'd feel justified in complaining further to the school about this system.

Because excluding such a small number is really singling a child out, and seems very unfair unless the school have a very good reason for it. And if they really do have a very good reason, then why on earth didn't they tell you what the problem is before?

This is ridiculous, and sounds very petty. On the school's part, not yours OP!
I'm a teacher and in my experience, all school activities have the sole aim of engaging ALL the children. Obviously there may be some children who are unable to cope with certain activities, but we still do everything we can to cater for them and ensure they get to join in.

On very rare occasions, you get a class that has a tricky dynamic and they may need the carrot/stick approach of 'this lovely activity has been planned - if you behave well, you get to take part' but again, that's aimed at getting the poorly behaved children to pull their socks up and sort themselves out, not punishing the generally well behaved children for minor slip ups! They're the ones who need the treat for putting up with the behaviour of the others, fgs!

I'm behind you, OP and would definitely be putting in a formal complaint. Unless your child is seriously disruptive, she should've gone on that trip. And in any case, you both should've been warned that there was a possibility she wouldn't be going in order to give her the chance to turn it around.

And FWIW I love dojos! I tend to give them out during random times like transitions and independent activities where I can sit at my computer and scan the class to see who's actually getting on with what I asked them to do. This in turn is a brilliant non-verbal way of reminding the rest of the class what they should be doing as they hear the sound of the dojos being added.
I find it's fair as the quiet, hardworking ones that usually get overlooked are always the ones that I notice doing the right thing when I sit back and watch.

If your dd was one of only 4 left behind then what were their reasons?

I think the difference between the school I used to work and the op school was that the children were a lot older. Children who didn't get the reward had lost points through poor behaviour and half to gain points in a very specific ways. There was no randomness.

In fact I think that giving Sen children lots of random rewards and not being prepared to punish them is why some of these children ended up being permanently excluded from mainstream. The children behaviour improved dramatically when they were in an environment where rewards and punishments were given out consistently.

If a secondary school aged child had thrown furniture across a room, repeatively worn at staff and walked out of lessons they tend to UNDERSTAND why they have missed the rewards trip.

There is a difference between leaving out 40 out of a 100 and 4 out if 100.