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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

URGENT - Special case threatens to take my childs spot

60 replies

Mamabear12 · 03/07/2015 10:59

Okay, well the special case has already taken her spot! Basically, we are number 1 on waiting list and my friend just declined her sons spot. I called the school and now they have told me, they were already over suscribed due to a special case, which I am PISSED about. What constitutes as a special case? If they already allowed 1 spot over, cant they just squeeze my daughter in? I am beyond annoyed right now. Sorry for the rant, I am just really upset, as been stressing the last two months! Anything I can do?? I knew this would happen. I am so FRUSTRATED!!!! Any advice? I know people can fight these things.

OP posts:

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BertrandRussell · 03/07/2015 11:02

Looks after child. A child with SEN that the school is the best fit for. A child whose need is greater than yours.

Still time for more movement on the list.

GaryBaldy · 03/07/2015 11:04

YY what Bertand said.

I get that you are annoyed but the other child has a greater NEED of the space than yours.

EeyoresTail · 03/07/2015 11:04

So the special case made them over subscribed and now that your friend has declined her spot they are now full?
I can see how stressful this must be for you. Maybe someone else will turn down their spot so your DD gets in.

hazeyjane · 03/07/2015 11:05

As Bertrand says, if a child has a school named on their statement/EHCP then they take priority as does a looked after child.

meditrina · 03/07/2015 11:06

Is this about a class where ICS rules apply?

If so, what it means is that they had had to admit one (or more) children above the legal limit of 30 per teacher. They are only permitted to do this in certain circumstances, which lead to the 31st child being "excepted" (ie, nit counted).

Children which are not excepted can only be admitted from the waiting list when there is a vacancy - ie the number per teacher is 29 or fewer.

Things that count as "excepted" include 31st child being one of multiples, an upheld appeal (which for ICS usually boils down to that the child should have been admitted in the first place) or exceptional circumstances which fall under the Fair Access Protocol.

ChablisTyrant · 03/07/2015 11:10

This happened to my friend. A child who had just moved to the village was placed as the 31st child in reception under fair access protocol. No special needs. Just no space at any other local schools. It sucks because she has been home schooling while waiting for a place to come up.
In my opinion, LAs are violating the infant class size rules in doing this. It isn't 'exceptional circumstances' for a family to move to the village.
She is going to have to home school until the end of year 2, then the school have promised they'll take her child in juniors.

Heels99 · 03/07/2015 11:12

Chablis your friend could send their child to a different school surely.

Original poster

Mamabear12 · 03/07/2015 11:16

I just want to make sure, it is all fair and now the case someone else has wormed their way in and taken my childs spot! I am so ANNOYED! I kept asking my friend when she was going to decline her spot...bc I was worried this might happen! ARGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to rant and if it is the case, that the child is really a special case, then I am sorry to be so annoyed. But I just feel like if they accepted one extra, they should allow my daughter in. Esp since I have been calling the school and there was no mention of being over suscribed by 1...when I said that I know someone plans to decline and my daughter is first on list.

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2015 11:19

"I just want to make sure, it is all fair and now the case someone else has wormed their way in and taken my childs spot!"

Yep. A child whose need was greater than your child's.

meditrina · 03/07/2015 11:26

"I just feel like if they accepted one extra, they should allow my daughter in"

This would be a good point for a non-ICS appeal, as showing the school can cope with higher numbers can tip the balance the appellant's way, but is not relevant when they are in force as the (limited) grounds on which an ICS appeal can be won do not include 'balance of prejudice'.

mummytime · 03/07/2015 11:28

Surely you have been offered a place at an alternative school.

One extra place can be exceptional circumstances, if there are no places at other schools close enough to get to. Schools do not operate with extra places. And if they have them the they have to offer them to the waiting list/ anyone who applies. So there is no capacity for people moving into the area. They just have to hope it all balances, or use the protocol if it doesn't.

Movement though can still occur over the summer or even during the year.

TheRealMaryMillington · 03/07/2015 11:28

No one has "wormed" their way in. What a horrible thing to say. You are well within your rights to be frustrated and annoyed, but please don't blame the kid who NEEDS to be there.

If schools admit and extra child can lead to financial issues that affect the whole school practically and financially. The school will have argued against this at allocation time.

FWIW at there was LOADs of traffic even in the first three months of my kids' reception classes, you are first on the list but you need to keep in mind that other people may still get a place ahead of you if other people meet the criteria better than you.

thatsshallot · 03/07/2015 11:30

They can only take one extra at ks1 if they are certain predefined grounds, and if there are they can't not take the child.

FWIW ds was no 5 on the waiting list, closest school one form entry we were offered place two days before start of term. He'd already done settling in and home visit to another much further away school. There's still ages for places to become available

TheRealMaryMillington · 03/07/2015 11:30

Why are you so stressed about it?

Does your kid have a school place?

At a reasonable school within reasonable distance?

slicedfinger · 03/07/2015 11:34

Having been in the same situation, I do completely get your frustration. That said, your reaction is despicable. It is not the fault of the child who has been allocated the place. They clearly have an actual need, as opposed to your simple desire.

And I'm sure you also realise that if your daughter was admitted, a new child would be 1st on the list, and have exactly the same argument to get in too? How many is too many in a class? 35, 40, 60???

wonkylegs · 03/07/2015 11:37

Unfortunately I think you have to think about it in terms such as the waiting list is fluid and your child has slipped down a place as a child with greater need took that place. I know technically that's not quite the situation but it has the same effect.
A cut off has to exist and sadly atm you are still just on the wrong side of it.
It is frustrating, my son has been on the waiting list for the school at the end of our road for 2 yrs, I drive past that school and the associated traffic that come in from much further afield everyday so I can take my son to school in the nearest town. The local school keep sending out newsletters to the whole village saying they have places in every year group but I and the other parents whose kids didn't get in (lots of us although we're the closest by distance & need - I'm disabled) have never got a place. I probably wouldn't move him now as he's settled and his school is fab (well except for the commute) but it's still frustrating. Choice is a real misnomer in the current system.

Theas18 · 03/07/2015 11:37

It also could be a 2nd twin ...

PatriciaHolm · 03/07/2015 11:51

It sounds as if the class (English primary, year R?) was full with 31 children accepted, with one of those being what is deemed an "excepted child" - a child the class can take to take them over the legal 30.

Such an exception could be due to a successful appeal, or to a child requiring a place after allocations and having an EHC plan that names the school, or possibly to implementation of the FAP (fair access protocol). If the class is KS1 and has 31 children, one child leaving/declining the place does not leave a vacancy; the school has to go under 30 again for that to be the case.

If that is the case - and we don't know at the moment of course, the OP hasn't given details -then there is essentially nothing you can do. Of course you could appeal yourself, but for a class of 30 in KS your grounds are limited and success unlikely. However, being top of the waiting list is a good place to be and in many areas would get you a place fairly soon.

Original poster

Mamabear12 · 03/07/2015 12:17

Thanks for all the responses, and when I said wormed way in, I meant if it was someone that did not really have a special needs or case. It is known that people can find other ways to get in...by donating money, knowing someone on the inside etc. That is what I meant by worming their way in. If it is fair and the child is a twin or special needs or special case, then of course..fine that is fair. I am just worried this is not the case...but I will never really know. So frustrating. And we do not have any other spot, this was a nursery spot and we applied only to this school. Thanks again for all the responses. I only hope someone moves or declines a spot bc they got in somewhere else, as my friend did...so my daughter (who has been talking about going to [removed by MNHQ]) can get a spot.

OP posts:

softhedgehog · 03/07/2015 12:28

It is known that people can find other ways to get in...by donating money, knowing someone on the inside etc

Are you American by any chance? The language ("taken my spot" and the concept that you've suggested above. That doesn't happen. As said, it'll be a looked after child or someone otherwise higher up the priority order.

KohINoorPencil · 03/07/2015 12:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2015 12:29

"It is known that people can find other ways to get in...by donating money, knowing someone on the inside etc"

To a State school? Bollocks.

You may want to ask Mumsnet to delete the name of the school in your post, by the way.

bookwormbeagle · 03/07/2015 12:30

In the nicest possible way, why on earth did you only put one school on your application?! Have you added yourself to waiting lists at alternative schools?

What have the LEA said - have they offered a place anywhere?

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2015 12:31

Presumably you have been given a school place? What's wrong with that school?

sliceofsoup · 03/07/2015 12:38

Knowing someone on the inside?

It isn't MI5. Its a school. They can't increase class sizes because the dinner lady's niece needs a spot.

I get that you are annoyed, but there is a level of paranoia and hysteria in your posts that doesn't seem proportionate to the situation.

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