Major upset in Yorkshire over school insisting on trousers for girls

[fortyfide]

Are trousers a rarity in schools
And do unifroms get changed frequently at great expense?

Surely an easier solution is to have the same uniform for male and female pupils, rather than faffing about with "stern female teachers" and male teachers not being able to do the whole of their job. Which is the solution this school has taken.

Female being subject to sexual comments on a building site.
Do you make the men stop being wankers or do you remove that part of the job from the female?

I know the girls are in the wrong for saying it. How do you stop them? Simply take away the opportunity from them (but not by ignoring the skirt lengths)

You stop the men saying those things. Subject them to discipline proceedings. The difference is they are adults.

There is a simple solution to all this angst: get rid of school uniform and stop caring what kids wear. It works in Europe and the US.

Before we have the argument that uniform is a leveller, I want to point out that kids in the UK are not less obsessed with expensive name brand clothes than kids in Holland, nor do they bully poor children less than their Dutch peers, who don't have uniforms.

Teachers should be teaching, not having to police people's clothing choices.

You stop the men saying those things. Subject them to discipline proceedings. The difference is they are adults.

Being an adult makes no difference. You stop the person who is being a twat from being twat, you don't remove the "victim" from that part of their job.

The comments madly the girls all form part of the "no smoke without fire" mentality. There is no direct comparison because women are not automatically assumed to be sexual predators or paedophiles. The fact remains that is is the male pupils who are at fault so the male teachers should not be the ones with restrictions placed upon them.

Equality works both ways.

Why does it matter how the girls are dressed?

"why does it matter how the girls are dressed"

... why do people wear clothes at all?

same answer

Setting up a system where a female member of staff gets sent all of the uniform rule breakers is not only impractical (the male members of staff would stil have to look to know to send the pupils to the uniform police) , it is divisive in that it removes authority from all male teachers. It also suggests that there is some truth to the rumours that make members of staff can't be trusted to police uniform.

Yes other countries have no uniforms but they still have dress code policies and they still have these problems.

Apart from educating children, high schools have a responsibility to prepare children for the world of work. At work, you don't get to dress however you want, many people have a uniform and you are expected to conform.

The school are attempting to solve a problem that has come to light. I think it is a sensible approach.

When I was at school we had a rule that the hem of your skirt had to touch the floor when you knelt down. The very strict deputy (female) would tell you to kneel down so she could check it if there was any doubt.

Don't really think that would fly these days! I'm all for trousers at school.

Why do short skirts make some people feel uncomfortable?

People like Daisy I mean.

Why is there a skirt length rule in the first place?

sorry I meant all teachers - not just the men - would refer the matter on. If the questionably dressed girls all had to assemble at break time for then it would be their own time they were wasting arguing about it not the teaching time. I suspect that in itself would deter rather than encourage.

At work, you don't get to dress however you want

Some of us do! I'm here in my jeans and trainers.

it's not the only school in East Yorkshire to be implementing this.

m.hulldailymail.co.uk/SCHOOL-SKIRT-BAN-PROTECT-GIRLS/story-11958974-detail/story.html
From 2011 ^^

Personally I think there girls should have a choice. If the school says knee length, then the school should make sure the rules are followed.

In the above article the head says she doesn't want to inconvenience parents, by handing out after school detentions for short skirts

Surely if you have repeat offender of not following the rules, it ends up as an after school detention. Which most definitely brings the problem to the parents attention?

Our school specifies a minimum length of skirt and that trousers if worn shouldn't be too tight or two baggy. They supply names of some styles in local shops which are deemed fine and as long as your skirt or trousers look like that, you're ok. There is some leeway of course, skirts look shorter on really tall girls for example, and the acceptable style of trousers can look very baggy if you are very little (DD2 looks a bit like a clown in her trousers but she is wearing the smallest size of the recommended style/brand and nobody has raised an issue). I don't think they have a problem wit trousers looking tighter in the fuller figure either so long as they don't look sprayed on. Most girls seem to wear skirts it must be said - my girls are the only ones among their friendship groups who wear trousers. DD1 wears skinny chinos which are definitey not the 'recommended' style but she has never got into any trouble. The trouble is reserved for the girls who wear belts and claim they are skirts.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8504552/Boy-wears-skirt-to-school-in-protest-against-discrimination.html

Boy wears skirt shocker!

Some people on this thread are saying - quite reasonably on the face of it - why shouldn't girls wear skirts of any length, and if men/boys are 'uncomfortable' then it's their issue and they should deal with it.

However, I take a slightly different slant on it. Our society is intensely sexualised and the pressure to be sexually attractive starts at a very young age. I think that at school, girls should be protected from that sexualised culture of self-display. School uniforms should be the very opposite of 'sexy schoolgirl', they should be 'child/young person in place of education'.

I don't think that a skirt length rule is about protecting boys/men from the sight of flesh. I think it's about protecting girls from the barrage of internalised pressure to put their bodies on display. I'm equally against boys wearing super-tight bum-hugging trousers, or hot-pants or trousers drooping down to show their pants.

I think it's about protecting girls from the barrage of internalised pressure to put their bodies on display.I think it's about protecting girls from the barrage of internalised pressure to put their bodies on display

But they don't have to wear skirts if they don't want to, they have the option of wearing either don't they? At my Dsis's school it's an even mix, and no one gets judged either way.

upduffed - yes, no problem with girls wearing skirts at school, just not really short and tight ones. Normal ones, fine. I also think that having a uniform that specifies wearing trousers is also fine.

Uniforms were not in fashion when I was at school. There seems to be a major market in school uniforms now. How many modern schools are bucking the uniform trend?

(The many varied posts here does show that it is by no means a simple
matter) I suspect the press have more power than the parents. They run a steady flow of schoolstories

Are there people on this thread who think that school girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their bums to school, if they want to?

School girls? i.e. people who haven't mentally matured yet? Not adult women.

Are there people on this thread who think that school girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their bums to school, if they want to?

Not especially, though I am chilled on the whole uniform thing, which has reverberated into adult life as I am equally chilled about the clothes I wear to work. Hence wearing jeans and trainers in an office where everyone else is wearing pencil skirts.

upduffedandworrying - but what if the girls wore no clothes? or only a bikini to school? Or even to work? Is it all ok?

I am going to be slightly controversial here and say this is about schools that are not prepared to stand by their own rules or just want to make it easy for themselves.
If you have a uniform rule that says skirts are acceptable but they must be of a certain length then that applies to male and female pupils and it also applies to the staff. It is for the senior leadership team of the school (including governors) to ensure that the rules are followed and not dodged around.
When a school comes up with we are banning skirts because it is embarrassing for the male members of staff etc, that is just the school dodging their responsibilities or being scared of some kind of issues around safeguarding. To me it just poor leadership and management in the school.