Major upset in Yorkshire over school insisting on trousers for girls

[fortyfide]

Are trousers a rarity in schools
And do unifroms get changed frequently at great expense?

I think the teacher was uncomfortable about the allegation that he was looking at a pupil's legs rather than being uncomfortable about girls wearing skirts. False allegations can wreck careers and if the school has a history of sexual abuse its understandable that present staff feel they need to protect themselves from false allegations. If a male member of staff cannot apprend a girl for wearing short skirt then the rule becomes unenforcable.

oh ffs, its a uniform change - its not a big deal

"Another parent claimed staff do not set a good example.
She said: "Some female staff wear high heels, short skirts and low-cut blouses. Are they going to be wearing trousers?"
(from the link)

that argument again

"To set it in context, on one occasion when a male member of staff challenged a female student on her skirt length, she retorted, 'You shouldn't be looking at my legs'."

But surely comments like that have been around for decades?
I certainly remember some girls making comments like this at school, sometimes to female teachers.
I can't help but feel that an adult male teacher should have an army of responses to deal with this. Feeling embarrassed shouldn't be one of them.

My dc's school have one style of skirt and one style of trousers for girls to choose between. It doesn't stop some girls wearing them in a way that could be construed as provocative, yet they are still wearing approved uniform.

Why should girls be allowed more choice than boys? Admitally I don't know of any cases of boys clambering to be allowed to wear skirts. The head teacher has decided that children should be treated equally regardless of gender. I don't understand why the parents are whinging. Their daughter can still wear skirts outside school.

onlylovers I meant the rule didn't specify how short was meant by "short". It just said (amongst other things) that employees should not wear short skirts, leaving it open to interpretation.

Never knew of anyone being pulled up for that rule though. Plenty of men were pulled up by the "non-logoed Tshirts" rule.

Aarrrggh!! Sloganed not logoed (which would be hard).
I give up :)

Oh I see, redsky. So no making people kneel and measuring how far their hem was off the ground, then.

It's strange that after years of girls in schools being given no choice over wearing skirts they are now being forced into wearing trousers because... well, those damn girls and their legs of evil.

I'd be all for giving boys the choice to wear skirts, to make it even.

When DD's primary changed its uniform - first time in many year - pupils and parents were given 18 months to change over to it.

Now at secondary and DD wouldn't actually like an insistence on having to wear trousers. She personally prefers a skirt to trousers, other than jeans. I can understand this - I prefer to wear a skirt/dress and rarely wear trousers tbh. For many reasons.

I think insisting on trousers is in every way as bad as insisting on skirts.
To make it fair, they should just says anyone can wear a skirt or trousers. Lets face, I doubt they are really going to have that many boys tuning up in a school skirt anyway.

The issue seems to have started because a girl accused a member of staff of inappropriate behaviour when she was challenged about her uniform.

Considering the climate surrounding make members of staff in school,

Sorry, errant toddler pressing send too soon.

Even here on mumsnet , men in education or caring roles are treated with suspicion by some.

I suspect the member of staff said to the head, 'how am supposed to enforce uniform policy if I'm going to be accused of inappropriate behaviour'. Bearing in mind that gossip turns into scandal very quickly.

What climate surrounding male (I assume you meant male?) staff?

(Genuine question, not being an arse)

The only negative against male teachers that I can recall was the teacher who ran away with a pupil, but the same could be considered for female staff.

The girl should have been disciplined for the comment, but to go as far as to ban skirts completely seems OTT.

Presumably a teacher (male or female) can be accused of many more inappropriate behaviours that do not involve uniform. I would expect teachers to have better ways of dealing with this.

Recently the times I've heard about people in authority in court for sex offences are mostly times when they've been guilty.

Surely teachers will still have paedo shouted at them when the girls' legs are covered?

I do understand the reasons, but i think they are knee jerk reactions that don't actually tackle the issue.

It just smacks of "shock: girls have legs, must cover them up or the men will ogle them" and it's pretty bloody offensive to men (who can control themselves) and to girls (who are not all out to accuse a teacher of looking at their legs).

Any child who falsely or jokily accuses a teacher of anything should be disciplined. It's not going to stop because girls are wearing trousers.

Read my earlier post. This school is in a town that has had several cases of teachers being convicted and allegations that accusations were not being properly investigated by the head teacher. It explains why everybody involved seems to have overreacted to this. A headteacher in this town would be put in an exceptionally difficult position disciplining kids who were making false accusations.

That is the catch 22. If they allow such comments to go unchallenged, they are putting staff at risk. If they are seen to be punishing or telling children off for such comments, it can be misconstrued as silencing genuine disclosures of abuse.

There is no indication from the report that this was about making girls less of a distraction for men or boys.

I absolutely agree that the uniform should be the same for both boys and girls whether that includes skirts or not.

Yes Hesterton, I agree they should be the same for practical reasons.
The reasons they are doing it open them up to criticism.

Add message | Report | Message poster CamelHump Wed 20-May-15 17:37:23
'Every time you switch on the news another person in a position of authority is in court for a sex offence. There is a huge climate of fear surrounding men in (some) schools.'

Sorry but if it makes it as far as court then there is reason to believe there is a good chance of securing a conviction.

The answer to the amount of sex offences getting to court is not to blame the alleged victim but to tackle the issue of sex offenders working in positions of authority.

False allegations are rare.