I know this has been done to death but will someone help me make the decision about private/state for my circumstances...

[ag123]

So DH and I live in North London. We have a ds, 3 and are expecting dc2 in September. We are both 30, DH is a lawyer in the city, I am a qualified primary school teacher and have worked part-time since ds was 1 but have just been given voluntary redundancy from Sept due to school restructure.

DH currently brings home about £4800 a month, mortgage is about £1500 a month, bills at least £500/month, groceries, petrol etc at least £800/month.

So ds is due to start nursery from Sept and has a place at both a local prep school and the very local state school and I keep swinging between which the right decision is.

The prep school is comparatively very good value at around £3000/term all the way through the school. They get very good results (a large proportion get into the grammars) and it had a very nice, non hot-housey atmosphere, with of course smaller class sizes.

Although it is comparatively good value, this will still be a stretch for us- an additional £800 a month we reckon and we will be losing my £1000/month salary ( we basically have no childcare costs) at the same time. There are certainly many areas that we could make savings in our lives...we don't live extravagantly but live well (i.e. Don't really think about how much we spend on shopping, go for meals out etc) so could easily cut back but not sure quite how good we'll be about that having not really had to do so before, and also lived near our overdraft limit even so the majority of the time.

The state school is very near and has a very good reputation. It is ofsted outstanding (multiple times in a row) but is positioned literally right at the side of one of the busiest roads in London and has very little outdoor space for sports etc. I also (as I'm sure lots of parents must do) think that ds might well be quite bright and I do worry about him being 'lost' in a class of 30 and not achieving his potential, especially as the catchment secondary school is AWFUL here so we would definitely be wanting to look to grammars.

I just can't decide whether it is worth the lifestyle sacrifice or not... Also since we are both relatively young there is quite a lot of scope for career progression for DH, and is it worth the sacrifice now if we can afford it a lot more comfortably in a few years time? I could work again part-time but don't want to be tied to it immediately and I'm not sure it would work logistically with the school run (a short car journey) to the possible prep school and we would have childcare cost for dc2 to factor in (my wage only just covered these between age 1-2 for ds). We are also considering having more than 2 children.

Anyway, sorry for such a long post, but does anyone have an opinion?!

Sounds like you can afford it. Just one thing - the fees go up a lot in my experience. Mine went up by 8% last year and are going up 10% this year so take that into account in any financial planning.

Also - putting one through isn't too bad but if you have 3 children it gets very very expensive. I guess it depends on how much you are likely to be earning in a few years.

My five have gone through the system. I think it is worth the sacrifice.

I would try the state one first and if you aren't happy after a year or two mice him.

If you do move him, get a job there and get staff discount. That's what I did.

What happens if he doesn't get into grammar? Would you be better off investing that money to go private for secondary if needed?

We started out in state. Should we become unhappy with it, it's fairly easy to move a child from state to private, and every year in state school is potentially savings added to the pot for secondary should you need to move them later. 4 years of private school per child is a completely different prospect to 13.

we have found positives where we never expected to, and I do think it's lovely that we see people we know everywhere we go. Our state school is huge on children learning through making mistakes, growing resilience, creative problem solving. Great education for life IMO, and just as important for the able children as exam results.

But for you it's not about our school, or generic decent state schools vs generic decent private schools, it's ultimately choosing between the 2 individual schools, one of which happens to cost a lot more. Is the state school 'good enough'? Not a question any of us can help you with I'm afraid.

I am also considering a independent school for my DD who is starting reception in September. I am moving house in a few weeks and all the local schools (all Ofsted good) are oversubscribed and I can't keep her at home until a place comes up, as I have to work. There is a lovely private school at our door step and right now it feels the only choice for us. Like you, it will mean to think before spending... perhaps not eating out as much, not going on holiday as much and so on... The private school has also good wraparound care include in the fee (the SS does not have wraparound care at all)...
Comparing the two schools, I think that the private is worth the money...
Good luck with your decision!

Hmm, maybe we should wait a few years til we can afford it more easily...i.e. start with state and see how it goes. Arrghh! Spinning round in circles with which is best path... And also haven't mentioned the £1000 deposit we'll lose if we don't end up going there (better that than years of fees if it's not the right choice though...) So confused!!!

You might be able to defer till year 3 (or whenever the next standard intake is) and not lose your deposit?

I'd wait. If you will be a SAHM then you won't need the extra hours a prep might offer which can be attractive to a teacher.

Get a job there for a discount???

Interestingly actually the prep offers almost no wrap-around care (a late club til 4.30 mainly aimed at siblings of other children attending an extra-curricular club), which possibly contributes to why it is cheaper, whereas the state primary has full breakfast til tea wraparound (and also a good selection of extracurricular clubs)

Your DC come from a privileged home background. You are a qualified primary school teacher. You live near an outstanding state primary. Prep school will probably offer them more sport/music/drama on site -but if you are a SAHM you can take them to classes yourself. Club based sports tuition will be better than that offered by most preps. Send them to your local school. Invest the money you would have spent on fees - and use it as needed in the future.

IIWY I'd do state primary, get a job at a secondary private school (you) for the fees discount and go private for secondary.

So I think you need to think longer term really!

If its ofsted outstanding I would go state. You can always do private secondary if you are unhappy with his secondary school . You might be earning by then which would help with fees x

In your shoes I would consider starting in reception at the local state school, and move on to the independent at 7+. Do some extracurricular enrichment with music and museums, and sports yourselves. Save 3k a term, and see how you cope without, while you build a small nest egg fund to use while they are in education.

Alternatively, aim for independent secondary and 11+.

I would wait until your child is older, also, how sure are you that you can afford two sets of fees?

Of Ofsted is outstanding I would go state. DH has worked in both and his view of the situation is that private schools rely on the intellect / interest of the parents to get the good results and therefore the teaching is not as good.

I'd just do state school and then private for secondary schooling. Unless you can comfortably afford it can't see the point in paying out for primary schools especially if you have a good state school.

I would say go independent now and then decide at 11+ whether you want to go grammar or independent senior.

I don't think the core education will be much different- as you know good+ state schools have the 3 Rs cracked now. There has been an immeasurable difference in the 'package' my YR DS has had at his prep compared to what would have been laid on in a state EYFS unit. (I am a primary teacher too, and on my 5th school so I've seen a variety of state models). It has been worth every penny.

Have you looked round the local state primary? As a primary school teacher yourself, surely you ought to be better than the average person at knowing what to look out for??? Did you like it (assuming you've been and looked)?

Have visited and felt a bit mixed to be honest. I think I may have happened to have visited at a 'transition' time but it felt a bit chaotic to me. I believe in free-flow in the early years (it was a reception class I'm thinking of) but if done right the children should all be engaged and not milling around- which it looked like on my visit. Also, just anxious about the reality of class sizes in state- in all honesty I just don't think it is possible to meet the learning needs of all 30 children in a class...

I totally agree with DrinksTooMuchCoffee

I assume you taught in a Private School yourself?

Why don't you try going back to the state option again, if you think you caught it at a bad time? And ask questions, to gauge whether what you saw the first time was likely to be the norm or not.

State every time. Education is so
Much more than exam results. Having a wide circle of local friends from all backgrounds is amazing for DC