Violent child in DDs class

[Nativity3]

My dd is in a class with some very challenging children. There is a small group of them that seem to struggle to follow the rules and I feel sorry for the teacher most days as she's lovely but I think even she is finding them hard work. I have seen them at parties and they are even worse when high on sugar!
There is one however who has become very angry and voilent. He is screaming at other children and physically hurting them. My dd is quite quiet and is very scared of him.
I volunteer in the class and the teacher has an evacuation plan in place so if he becomes aggressive she can remove the rest of the class safely. I am not concerned for dd's physical safety but emotionally I don't know how to reassure her as this child is threatening children and becoming angry on a daily basis.

Oh, proud. It's a shame that folk are so narrow-minded and have so little life experience and empathy.

I really hope you are never forced into having to deal with this stuff yourself. You'd be forced to grow up pretty quickly.

Where do LAs uphold exclusions? Normally the school's governing body?

I can't remember the exact procedure. It's something like Head makes decision and it has to be agreed by governors. Parents can challenge. Then goes to group of governors that weren't involved in initial decision. If parents are still unhappy then it goes to LA.
Plus LA often put pressure on schools not to exclude in first place - doesn't look good for their statistics.

I'm not denying ADHD isn't a real condition I just think people are throwing the word about a lot more than they used to. And I don't think other children should suffer.

You're the only person who mentioned ADHD! Actually, scrap that, I'm going back to my "fuck off".

op it is so hard when your child is at risk
ignore Proudtobeagoadyfucker. and see the ht and make sure they listen.

How on earth is it similar to being scared of a blind child??? This child is violent, that is a legitimate reason to be scared. Child has already hurt others, the DDs fear is with good reason.

It sounds like the teacher is in desperate need of help. Evacuation plan for entire class to escape one child? Surely remove the child and continue the class when he is having his tantrums? Why doesn't he have a one to one. Either he is really naughty and should be excluded or has serious problems and needs extra assistance and someone who can stop him hurting other children.

Nativity I would take your concerns to the HT in writing. Please couch in terms along lines of your child's point of view, not finger pointing at the boy. School may well be gathering info to make a case for more support for him and your letter could well assist that.

Okay

We need to be really careful about knocking or mocking the rise in diagnoses.

Calling a child a "little shit" is bogglingly unkind, good grief

I have a child like that, too many complex issues to go into...

It may not even be adhd (see guest blog on PDA) but the child is clearly having some serious difficulties, believe me, school will escalate rather than permanently exclude ie. internal exclusion, playtime exclusion and restraint.

I'm an adult with ADHD, proud mummy, I also happen to work in a primary school.
Offensive and judgemental are obviously your middle names, please shut up.

oh, btw, have some empathy!! its hard enough raising children like this without people like you tutting at the sideline

Yes write to the school, in terms of this child needing proper, 1-to support, preferably trained in de-escalation/safe removal. This may help him get it. This is not the behaviour of a happy child. He needs the time and space to calm down in safety. Clearing the class should be a last resort - better to remove the child/give them a quiet space to go to.

When I was at school, we also didn't have children 'like that' - they were packed off to residential schools. We didn't understand special needs or how to manage them in mainstream.

Now, although things are far from perfect, I see a whole generation growing up to understand that not everyone thinks/acts the same, and that's ok. I see little children helping to support classmates who struggle physically, verbally and emotionally. I am a Special Needs teacher, and am proud on a daily basis of how children cope. I don't agree with other pupils being scared though, and advocate removal during outbursts, combined with being very clear with class about why this pupil is acting out & reassuring them that adults will protect them. Also looking at flash points & trying to 'get in first' before escalation.

I am not even going to get into the ADHD debate...

But re the evac plan...sometimes it is safer to remove the class than try and remove a child that is having a meltdown.

Oh and as for the why don't they have a one to one, or they should be in special schools. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a one to one, or a statement/ehc plan to allow entry into a special school? Do you realise how many of 'those kids' struggle every single day? At least your perfect petal can concentrate on the lessons, learn and socialise!

I can't comment on the OPs situation, but I was that mother with a violent child, everyone would grab their DCS when we entered a room or class, no one would bring their kids round for tea, to play etc my other DS was terrified of him and I hated him. DH and I begged social services to take him away to give us a break but they wouldn't. One day something snapped I decided to 'take control' it was simple but I had been too brow beaten before to be able to see the wood for the trees. I simply disciplined him - firmly! When he was good he was rewarded but he was naughty and violent, boy did he learn very quickly that it wasn't acceptable. I soon gained control of him and we got our family back. He is now captain of his rugb? team and a school ambassador. He is absolutely gorgeous and everyone loves hi to bits but I dread to think where we would be if I hadn't got and kept a firm handle on him!!
Obviously OP can't do this with someone else's child but I do think we have lost a lot of the old fashioned discipline which did many of us no harm and we learnt respect, I'm just thankful I found the courage to do it.
On the flip side we have a boy at school who has recently turned very violent and it is his family circumstances at the root of it. The school are doing all they can and we have had to talkto our DCs and explain that for this boy it isn't his fault and he is getting the right help so they need to be friendly but be aware of his mood swings and stay clear. Sorry for the long post...

Just to reassure proudmummy, I worked in education management for years and for as long as I can remember, there were young children who were violent. It was fairly rare and the other children would be removed from the classroom and other adults would quickly be summoned by the class teacher or TA to calm the child down. Sometimes the children would upend furniture, throw things, or wield scissors. These children, in those days, were accelerated to see an educational psychologist (probably not for the first time) and sometimes a child mental health professional. Very many meetings would be held with the parents so home and school could work together. Often Headteachers would organise parental complaints so we, the LA, would be asked, repeatedly, to remove the child. The teachers at one school virtually refused to teach such a child until we did find him another school. (In those days we did because he went back to his catchment school who had a place and had to have him). We also had wonderful support from experienced EBD teachers (sorry for the old label) who worked with class teachers on strategies to help in the classroom. We also ran a behaviour/play therapy unit where our worst behaved children would go for 2 days a week. Socialising through play was the theme of this and parents and teachers were very involved too.

When I was working I met a lot of parents who wanted their child to have a place in a special school. However, a vociferous group of parents wanted inclusion. Inclusion won and now everyone has to be included. Therefore special school places, and provision such as our behaviour therapy unit, have gone. Some schools are not in the best position to deal with extreme behaviour and the more middle class the school, the more difficult the parent body will be. It is reasonable for a school to be a safe place for all children and I am sure the Head will be aware of their responsibilities. I would also suspect the school will be doing all it can to get help for this child. The Head can exclude on grounds of safety of the other children but the child must also be educated so whoever is doing my job now ( haha - long since gone I suspect) should be sorting this out as far as possible. I used to agree to a lot of temporary one to one TA support - and pay for it from my LA budget. Oops, that's gone too.....

Surely no one is actually that ignorant really.

I also love how it's suggested aggressive children are sent off to special school.

So it's fine for kids with SN to be in classes with aggressive children. Actually it is because my DD is, and she is not aggressive, and she manages to cope with it.

I also wouldn't bother reassuring proudmummy or educating her. Some people are beyond redemption with their views. Or goading.

Pepperpot yes it's all just a good lack of discipline. Just give these kids with ASD a good telling off and all will be fine and they will be captains of the rugby team.