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Working as a volunteer in school - challenging the teacher

287 replies

Jules2 · 11/02/2015 12:25

Here's a pithy subject for other parents and teachers - I really would like to hear from teachers. I've been volunteering in a Yr 6 class at my daughter's school and every week the teacher has made some kind of mistake - be it a grammatical error, spelling mistake or a mistake in Maths. One example was where she asked pupils to put 4 fractions in ascending order and she gave them the wrong answer. I'm not so quick at Maths myself but thought it was incorrect and worked it out after I left. English is my strong suit - I was a book editor and English graduate - so I do know my stuff. But what should I do? I don't want to embarrass a teacher (and she's not the only one) and this particular teacher can be quite defensive. Should I let these errors go? Or raise them discreetly after class - but when it may be too late? Teachers/parents - have you experienced this situation and what would you advise?

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Seeline · 11/02/2015 12:29

I have seen some errors when volunteering in class, but have only spoken up once. The teacher and children were discussing some research that they had done for homework, and one child said something and the teacher basically told him he was wrong. He wasn't, he was absolutely right and is was concerning something fairly fundamental to the topic they were discussing so I just said "Actually, I think Bob is right because....."
I have corrected incorrect spellings sent home, before making the DCs learn them....

steppeinginto2015 · 11/02/2015 12:40

This is really hard.
I think that I would let many things pass. My dd2s amazing teacher has a fair few spoken grammar mistakes, which annoy me, but they are partly her regional accent.
If she wrote those regularly or taught them I would say something.

So my rule of thumb would be that a passing mistake I would ignore, we are human beings after all.

If it was being taught, eg a spelling mistake being taught or a grammar form being taught, I would mention it after the lesson, in a very apologetic way, maybe saying 'as I was helping x child with this I was a bit confused, I would normally do it this way???'

So in your example, I would have mentioned the fractions. Never in front of the class though.

Jules2 · 11/02/2015 12:54

I have also sent back my daughter's (Yr 5) homework with my corrections on it. Over the past few weeks she has been given passages with grammar questions as homework. For one thing, they are always badly photocopied - sometimes hard to read - and the questions can be worded in a confusing way (e.g 'give a preposition in line 1' - there are 2 but they ony have 1 as the answer). Often they seem to be marked - from the 'answer sheet' - by one of the TAs. TAs do sterling work but, unfortunately, a few seem incapable of thinking for themselves and, at my DDs school, a few are not well educated. Just last week, 4 of my DDs answers were marked as wrong - they were all correct and I pointed that out to her class teacher. It wasn't well received - it's as if you don't have the right to question their work, something I associate with being at school in the 1960s/70s when my parents would never have done so. Well, this is 2015 and I will always 'on the case' where my daughter's school work is concerned.

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steppeinginto2015 · 11/02/2015 13:21

That is pretty poor Jules.
I have to say i don't think I have ever had wrong homework. I know one teacher did, and several parents went ballistic! (typical of our school, ignore child's education or overreact!)
Schools response, quick apology and re-issue homework. Seemed reasonable to me

ReallyTired · 11/02/2015 14:39

As a volunteer you are there to support the teacher, NOT to be an unpaid OFSTED inspector. If you go correcting the teacher the school will swiftly not want you to volunteer.

TheTroubleWithAngels · 11/02/2015 16:47

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArcheryAnnie · 11/02/2015 17:12

I can see it would be embarrassing, TheTrouble - but better than the kids being taught stuff that's not true, surely?

CharlesRyder · 11/02/2015 17:16

I am currently teaching maths to a very gifted group of Y5s &6s with significant behavioural difficulties. I am not bad at maths- I have a science based degree from Oxford so I am at least ahead of the children. However, my mental maths is TERRIBLE. When I'm thinking more about the interaction with the children than what my hand is doing I often write digits up incorrectly.

The children and my TA correct me. If nobody notices we find out because somewhere down the line the maths doesn't work. We go back and find the error.

It is a really good part of the learning process. It is also brilliant socially as it makes it a risk free environment. The fact that I am fallible and make mistakes makes it ok for them to make mistakes which cuts down massively on the meltdowns. If I didn't ever make mistakes by accident I would do it on purpose.

Your judgy attitude would not be welcome in my (outstanding) classroom.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 11/02/2015 17:20

I am a science graduate and used to volunteer as a helper for science lessons at my kids' primary. I have to say the teacher had a very poor, muddled, grasp of science, ( and used to lumber me with a group of "challenging" boys) but I never challenged her. If one of the kids asked me a question I would answer them though, and I endeavoured to straighten things out with my small group.

madwomanbackintheattic · 11/02/2015 17:21

But your method relies on the teacher (or at least the pupils or TA) realising that there ARE mistakes, Charles. If no one is correcting this shit, then the teaching is not 'outstanding', it is worthless garbage.

TheTroubleWithAngels · 11/02/2015 17:24

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlesRyder · 11/02/2015 17:26

We always do realise? I would be surprised if any teacher NEVER thinks 12 and writes 21. Maybe they do. Doesn't seem to be holding my kids back though.

Stinkle · 11/02/2015 17:35

I volunteer in school and pointed out a spelling mistake on a spellings list.

It was something like acommodate instead of accommodate.

I was very polite about it, assumed it was a typo and did she want me to re-copy the sheet before it went out. It didn't go down well, teacher insisted it could be spelled both ways and it wasn't my place to point it out anyway.

I've kept my mouth shut ever since. Actually, I don't volunteer in that class anymore as it's now my own DD's class - the teacher still doesn't take kindly to mistakes in homework being picked up on

CharlesRyder · 11/02/2015 17:38

I meant 'we' as in my class btw not teachers in general. I would never teach a concept incorrectly and have never sent incorrect homework.

I would be quite pissed off if you complained about my brain and hand not connecting when I'm trying to write up calculations at speed though!

madwomanbackintheattic · 11/02/2015 17:38

You realise, but most don't. The kids whose tests are marked and sent home with the wrong grades, the spelling lists that are sent home for kids to learn with spelling mistakes, the certificates that are proudly borne home by excited children with spelling errors.... Not all teachers, TAs or schools recognise mistakes.

Unless parents are happy to accept that their child is learning errors by rote, or having correct maths answers marked as wrong becasue TAs do not understand the content, then schools are going to have to listen when their errors are pointed out.

Whilst I find it marginally entertaining when the kids come home with a new spelling list with errors on it, I do email the school and let them know. It's no wonder that educational standards are sliding if parents are not able to correct mistakes that teachers make.

My kids are usually the brats that correct the teachers work. So far it has been met with equanimity. They do it nicely. In a polite and mannerly way. The teachers always report it with a mild hint of irony. We are all human.

As a volunteer, I would tread carefully. I would be aware that my role was not supposed to include correcting the teacher's work, but tbh, I think a subtle, away from the kids, friendly conversation about the errors would be in order, whether it jeopardised my future volunteering or not. If the teacher doesn't know they are imparting shite, all the more dangerous for the kids who are not at the point where they are able to question it, themselves. Think of it as safeguarding their learning, and possibly helping the teacher to do a better job.

Yes, I have taught. Yes I have been in classes as both a TA (well, LA for SEn kids) and volunteered. I know my place in whatever role I happen to be in, but standing by and letting schools teach rubbish to children they have a duty to educate isn't a role I will take.

Viviennemary · 11/02/2015 17:39

It must be annoying. But you should keep quiet as you're not there to point out mistakes. Why don't you get a job as your talents seem to be wasted.

Quangle · 11/02/2015 17:45

I wouldn't worry about the TA/homework element. Our homework is always poorly photocopied - often whole columns are missing. And marked by rote but I figure that's fine and it's not a big deal. Occasionally it's sort of wrong but in an ok way and all that you should let go. You sound a bit too "on it" iyswim. It's homework and rote and practice and it doesn't make all that much difference if the TA's approach isn't the same as yours would be.

Putting fractions in the wrong order would worry me more because children who were trying to follow her would think she was right and assume they didn't understand it when they thought they had. Confidence is such an important part of maths and it's easy for children to lose their confidence. But anyone can make a slip. I don't think you can say anything unless you really think she is not good enough to teach this subject.

MrsCakesPrecognition · 11/02/2015 17:45

As a volunteer, I am like the three wise monkeys rolled into one. I see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of effort to stay oblivious. But mistakes in homework or marking which I see as a parent...that is another matter.

ArcheryAnnie · 11/02/2015 17:46

Very few teachers would welcome it though (wrong as that may be!), especially in such a sneery, judgemental way.

But who is being sneery or judgemental here, TheTrouble? Anyone who has mentioned that they've done this so far has said they've been discreet or quietly apologetic about it.

Whoishillgirl · 11/02/2015 17:47

Thetrouble, I find your attitude disgraceful. We all should accept constructive feedback whatever job we have. Teachers especially so, as they are In a powerful position. It is not acceptable if they are teaching things which are wrong. The culture in your school is disgusting if feedback is so angrily received.

fredfredsausagehead1 · 11/02/2015 17:51

I think out of kindness I wouldn't say anything to the teacher but gently say the right thing to whomever is concerned at the right time, IYSWIM? I do t think it's your place to go correcting a teacher you're helping it may come across as rude and make their bad day even worse

Stinkle · 11/02/2015 17:52

I wasn't sneery or smug about it. I'm not the spelling or grammar police and 99 times out of 100 I wouldn't have noticed

I only noticed because I was asked to photocopy the sheets and hand them out (there were only 10 words on there so it jumped out at me) I assumed it was just a simple typo and quietly asked if she wanted me to change it before it was sent out.

I figured someone would correct it (everyone did) as it was a spellings list.

TheTroubleWithAngels · 11/02/2015 17:55

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BrassicaBabe · 11/02/2015 17:55

Well, this thread has helped me!

My dd came home with a card yesterday.
"Happy Valentines day
Love you lot's"

The 2 apostrophe errors are making my teeth itch. But she's 3.5 so I guess I'll swallow it! Grin

MissPricklePants · 11/02/2015 18:03

I'm a HLTA at a primary (I have a Masters degree too! The teacher and I will correct each other but we have worked together for a while and we are friends out of work too. I wouldn't be happy if a volunteer corrected me in front of the class I was teaching but a quiet word I'd be Ok with. Depends on the personality of the teacher I guess.