Working as a volunteer in school - challenging the teacher

[Jules2]

Here's a pithy subject for other parents and teachers - I really would like to hear from teachers. I've been volunteering in a Yr 6 class at my daughter's school and every week the teacher has made some kind of mistake - be it a grammatical error, spelling mistake or a mistake in Maths. One example was where she asked pupils to put 4 fractions in ascending order and she gave them the wrong answer. I'm not so quick at Maths myself but thought it was incorrect and worked it out after I left. English is my strong suit - I was a book editor and English graduate - so I do know my stuff. But what should I do? I don't want to embarrass a teacher (and she's not the only one) and this particular teacher can be quite defensive. Should I let these errors go? Or raise them discreetly after class - but when it may be too late? Teachers/parents - have you experienced this situation and what would you advise?

...With these sort of attitudes TheTrouble you may be left for a good part of the day with your tights tucked in your knickers or your flies undone!

So you'll not mind being corrected then TheTrouble.

I don't volunteer in school apart from to herd children on school trips. I work with school staff and find the attitude Trouble styles to common. I do volunteer for an adult service where my viewpoint is treated as important as the professional and consulted. I don't have the expertise of the professional but have ideas and it's the professionals role to see if these could/should be encorporated

I'm actually really shocked at how many teachers would object to being corrected when making an error.

I basically write spreadsheets for a living. If a junior trainee finds an error in my spreadsheet I have a look and if they are right I send them an email thanking them, usually Ccing it into their boss. (Unless I'm their boss!)

The way I see itv- we all have the same aim - to get the numbers right.

If someone corrects me then I feel an idiot for a minute. If I make a wrong decision due to some dodgy numbers then I can look an idiot for years!

Come on, we all know that being a volunteer and being a teacher are two different things.
No one has talked about the volunteer telling the teacher his or her way of teaching was wrong. We are talking about basic mistakes.
Eg a spelling list for Y5 with a mistake on is a basic mistake as said 9yo are all suppose to master that word, let alone the teacher with a degree.

As a parent, I have met teachers who have been teaching stuff that was wrong or have told my dcs they were wrong when they are were right. And got quite grumpy when the lis take was pointed out to them.
I've also met teachers who were very happy to listen when I pointed out things that I thought didn't make sense, or issues with the way my dc was learning. And they were happy to listen and take that pov into account if useful/interesting.

The one thing that has always be true us that teachers who are happy to listen to comments, whatever they are wo feeling under attack and taking personally have AKWAYS been the best teachers.
And the more the teacher is getting upset at a comment, the wrist they have been.

Maybe it has something to do with how confident they are themselves with their teaching?

If you know a lot of teachers who would mind then maybe you should think about challenging them...either that, or you're unfortunate in the company you keep.

Professional people on the whole tend to have a universal respect for their colleagues, whether those colleagues are paid, unpaid, or on a different grade. If someone is unable to work to a professional level (whether that involves teaching correctly, or following correct clinical procedure, or whatever it is) then they should be more concerned with improving their own performance and less concerned about the performance of the Volunteer whose abilities are obviously superior to theirs - and teachers who object to having their errors pointed out (politely and quietly) would do well to remember that.

This is of course assuming that the volunteer/parent is actually correct! I've had parents question a spelling which I'd set and was correct. I was going to send home a photocopy of the appropriate dictionary definition but decided it wasn't very professional of me and had a quiet word. Years ago when I was newly qualified a patent complained I had marked some of his son's spelling wrong when they were right and vice versa. I was mortified. After he left I checked. I was correct and he was the one who couldn't spell!

Absolutely - but the key difference Wombat is that you listened to their concerns and went away and checked to see whether you had made an error. You didn't dismiss them, accuse them of being rude, remind them to remember their place in the hierarchy, or any number of other ignorant responses you could have given. You acted professionally and courteously.

Of course, you can say that someone who is getting so grumpy at a volunteer (quiet and nice) comment re spelling etc is actually acting unprofessionally.

I don't really disagree but I would be surprised if that is going to be accepted by teachers who think that volunteers are at the bottom of the pile and therefore aren't allowed any comment at all.

Note for TheTrouble and the likes. It's sometimes comments and proposals from parents (who also are those volunteers in the school) that make a hide difference to how good the teaching in the school is. Maybe because they have skills superior to the teachers there. Maybe because they can give a fresh outlook on to how to do things (maybe they have experience something ease than the British education system). Maybe they are coming from a different field and are looking at things with a naivity that makes then see what all the others don't anymore. (Pair of fresh eyes etc)

I'm at loss as to why you would automatically reject comments from these people.

And that's wo talking about the fact I would expect a teacher to know how to spell and count at primary level (as in perfectly doing it 95% of the time or more to leave space for 'stupid' mistakes).

A volunteer is not my colleague, especially if they are also a parent of a child in my class.

Oh dear, they are if they are working alongside / with you. You really shouldn't have parent of children in your class as volunteers in your class if you feel like this.

theTrouble
I have understood the conversation to mean equal as in as an intelligent human being, not an equal as in qualified and practiced in the art/science of teaching a group of children.
A volunteer is your colleague, your partner in the class room.

I have volunteered in school for the last 6 years and thank the Lord I haven't been in a class room with a teacher who had the same attitude as you seem to have.

Why is someone with no teaching experience my colleague? They aren't knocking their melt in 60-70 hours a week! They aren't marking, planning or assessing, they aren't in charge of differentiating and they shouldn't even be told confidential information about children (ASP details etc).

This just sounds bitter and jealous. This person is also giving up their own time for free.

In my view the best and most knowledgable teachers are the ones who welcome a gentle nudge from a colleague (or volunteer) if they have made an error. They would be horrified if their pupils picked up a wrong spelling as a result of their mistake as these things often stick on our heads for life and are hard to "un-learn". Great teachers want to do well by their pupils as they realise they have a responsibility to teach them correct facts. They are also confident in their overall ability as a teacher to know that everyone is human and the odd mistake is bound to slip in.

No-one should EVER let a mistake by the teacher slip through in corrected. It can be addressed during the next lesson "I was obviously feeling tired that day, children, because who noticed that I ....?"

The shittest teachers are the arrogant ones who can't take criticism and never admit to being wrong, or don't like "losing face" in front of their pupils, even if it means causing kids stress because they think they don't understand something properly. I just think: grow up, your job isn't to look all-powerful to your pupils, your job is to teach them correct facts.

I know of a teacher who teaches English to bottom set strugglers. He gets pronouns and proper nouns the wrong way round and pounds the wrong information into those poor kids' heads. He isn't the type who would take kindly to someone pointing out his error and even the head of dept won't pick him up on it. Pathetic.

...on the same note do you consider ancillary staff your colleagues TheTrouble? They don't do planning or differentiating either...

It would be unwise to let any anger over workload distort how volunteers are viewed. They can help.

Jealous over the free time.

Oh they are your colleague - and you should treat them with the same respect that you treat all of your colleagues, whether they are the Head, the janitor, another teacher or the office staff.

is a dinner lady your colleague or a teaching assistant, or the school receptionist?