Working as a volunteer in school - challenging the teacher

[Jules2]

Here's a pithy subject for other parents and teachers - I really would like to hear from teachers. I've been volunteering in a Yr 6 class at my daughter's school and every week the teacher has made some kind of mistake - be it a grammatical error, spelling mistake or a mistake in Maths. One example was where she asked pupils to put 4 fractions in ascending order and she gave them the wrong answer. I'm not so quick at Maths myself but thought it was incorrect and worked it out after I left. English is my strong suit - I was a book editor and English graduate - so I do know my stuff. But what should I do? I don't want to embarrass a teacher (and she's not the only one) and this particular teacher can be quite defensive. Should I let these errors go? Or raise them discreetly after class - but when it may be too late? Teachers/parents - have you experienced this situation and what would you advise?

No chips here. Remember the OP hasn't necessarily said anything to the teacher. Just talked vaguely about her situation on a forum, for the purposes of asking advice concerning how to approach this tactfully.

I am so so so glad that the teachers at my child's school treat me as a valued help not as a nuisance who is there to sharpen pencils. As far as I know, all sharpening of pencils is done by child volunteers at DD's school. The kids who don't like the cold come in and do it at play time (also free).

Naicecuppa, come to our school, you will be welcomed with open arms by nice friendly teacher people who like you and want to buy you a Pimms at the summer fair to say thanks!

I've taught all kinds of curriculum areas, mainly to struggling children or very able children (ie those who fall outside the main lesson ground), and have been quite successful generally. Plus, I'm free and give school around six hours a week of unpaid labour because I just like it. I would actually quite like to be a TA but as I have to earn a living and can't be paid that badly, I can't do that. But I like helping. I am just so glad I have never been paired with a teacher who wasn't a sensible normal friendly person!

I am really shocked by this thread about and the attitude of many of the teachers on it. Why would you not be grateful if any mistake you made was pointed out, I know I would. My hurt feeling are insignificant compared to the children being taught things that are just plain wrong. Why would anyone even be upset about it, we all make mistakes or even just don't know things, it's as if you think you're the smartest person on the planet.

As a teacher, I would be mortified if anyone noticed a mistake I had made and didn't bother pointing it out to me. I don't care if that person is another member of staff, a volunteer or a child in my class. As long as it was pointed out politely then bring it on. Why would you just ignore it? If you are volunteering in my class then you are being entrusted with the welfare of those children. If I'm writing, mushy pea's on the board, bloody tell me. Not that I would, as incorrect apostrophe use sets my teeth on edge.
We all make mistakes but teachers who regularly make glaring spelling and grammatical errors need to attend some form of basic English 101 course. It is utterly unacceptable to be teaching in a primary school with literacy and numeracy skills barely higher that the bright Y6s.

It's interesting to see how different people respond to having their mistakes pointed out.
I'm a vet and we work as a team. If a nurse, vet student or even work experience person spotted something I had missed I would be pleased (and possibly a bit embarrassed) but certainly not angry or defensive. We work as a team to provide the best service we can and sometimes there's nothing like a fresh pair of eyes to view something differently.
Interestingly, my son's teacher informed me she had changed one of his lessons when DS and his mate spotted something important missing. She is a great teacher but the boys just had a different angle on it that she hadn't considered. She wasn't cross or angry, but pleased that they were confident to question it.
Also, just because someone is volunteering, it doesn't mean they leave their brain at the door....

Oh I don't think you've quite given up everything for the good of teaching, TheTrouble unless you can be appropriately humble too...

'fucking saint', well at least one part is correct...

I have a good degree, a pgce and a masters and I have worked with many TAs who are more qualified than me. The assumption that all TAs are poorly educated is rude and arrogant. I have also worked with a TA who whilst not degree educated, grew up working in her father's shop. Her basic number skills were literally phenomenal. She could add and subtract 3 digit numbers in her head within a couple of seconds. Great skill for a Y4 TA!

I am a teacher and I human, therefore I make mistakes.
I am quite happy to have errors pointed out, especially if they are on letters etc that will go home.

Piggychops, that's shy I love having students in my class. Those fresh eyes and ideas and all that enthusiasm. When the good ones leave I always feel that I've learned as much as them. [ smile]

Just thinking about other professions. Should a theatre assistant during an operation not say anything to the surgeon if they see him/her about to make a mistake? Of course they should, because they're doing an important task and it matters to the patient if someone, no matter high up, makes a mistake.

A child's education is just as important as that patient in the operating theatre.

I would be a bit offended if my mistakes weren't pointed out. As though the observer didn't realise they were a mistake, rather than a fundamental misunderstanding of the material. I get cross if my students don't point out the odd mistake in fact! I want them to be interested enough and understand enough to notice!

How is it not appropriate for someone who knows quite a lot about some curriculum areas and is prepared to help for free to pass that knowledge on?

I give six hours a week unpaid to DD's school. I'm not a fucking saint. I'm a mum with good knowledge of most core curriculum areas (please, don't make me teach humanities, I have no idea about those) who likes helping and is good at it. When I go in to help, most of my daughter's class beg to come and be in my group. They know that I like them and will make it fun. The teachers know that I will actually help, in terms of adding value to whatever they are currently teaching. And I am fortunate enough to be able to earn a living and still have this free time.

Last year, in Y2, I took a regular group of underachieving children for Maths, specifically word problems. I did a half hour session once a week with six kids (half an hour personally for each child). Five of them achieved Level 3 at the end of the year, although at the start of the year they were all counted as being children who weren't achieving their potential. I am very happy to have made a difference to bright kids whose home lives meant that they weren't achieving their potential.

This year, I'm doing other things, mainly with children who are struggling with reading. I hope I'll be able to make a difference this year too, and have seen some progress already. If I don't make a difference, it won't be because this is somehow massively inappropriate. Quite honestly, most of the stuff that my hugely overachieving DD can do is stuff that I've taught her, not stuff that has been covered in school.

I think I am glad my DD doesn't go to your school, TheTroubleWithAngels.

I am v glad to see all these teachers who are happy to have their minor mistakes pointed out. I too would be happy and grateful to have someone point it out if I'd made a mistake! I didn't realise that wasn't universal until this thread!

I also hope my daughter never goes to school with a teacher like TheTroubleWithAngels. And I don't think there was anything judgey about the OP's post.

I'm pleased that some teachers understand that noticing a mistake doesn't send their ego, standing and control of the class come crashing to the ground. As in every profession teachers do things wrong and as in all professions this needs to be corrected in a useful and kind way.

Teachers are not above criticism, they're humans, not saints! And a good teacher would be horrified at the idea of their pupils learning something untrue or a mistake causing issues in comprehension or learning of a concept. Not force students to learn things wrongly just to save face, or refuse to listen as the person pointing it out is not the right type of person in some way. Good teachers wouldn't be so revoltingly prideful and egocentric!

To be so oddly concerned about status and others 'knowing their place' is not the mark of a good teacher, but it is rather revealing.

Could not agree more. Stop being so precious and learn something from your mistakes!

I'm perfectly happy for someone to point out a mistake I've made in class.

In fact, it wouldn't bother me if it was in front of the children either because they need to see how adults deal with making mistakes!

As with any profession, on the one hand, there are the true professionals who see themselves on a lifelong learning journey, happy to learn from others irrespective of who those 'others' are, and who enjoy working with a range of people - and on the other, there are workers like Trouble.

To all you classroom volunteers out there, as a parent who doesn't volunteer in the school (I work f/t and volunteer in the community in other ways - in my defence ), can I say a huge thank you? Your time in the classroom means that my DCs receive the best education possible.

well, our school has recently asked for parent volunteers for reading.
As a governor, I know that this is an important part of pulling up our reading levels, as well as fitting with one of the schools targets about home/school partnership.

As such, for those volunteers to then be treated as Trouble would treat them would be pretty stupid.

And, for what it is worth, as I look at the group who have volunteered, most have qualifications, many have degrees (one is a qualified teacher) and at least 3 of them are school governors - and this is in an area with very high FSM intake.

As governors we recently looked at a selection of books, to look at the new marking system. There were a few spelling mistakes from the teachers here and there. We smiled, accepted it was unusual and due to speed/tiredness and that we were not there to pick up on spelling mistakes, but to look at the marking scheme.

This thread is so sad. You are getting some astonishing responses here Jules2. So uncalled for as your OP was very carefully worded.

IME teachers making spelling and maths mistakes is not unusual at all. Yes we are all human - but I am talking about consistent mistakes where the person just doesn't know the correct spelling or hasn't grasped the maths principle. Flame me all you want, I work with teachers and this is my experience.

I don't think it was wrong of the OP to point out that at her school TAs are not encouraged to think independently (see the pp talking about the 3 wise monkeys ) and that some of them are uneducated. Some people are uneducated. They can be very intelligent and capable - education is about acquired knowledge, and that can be improved.

Some reactions on this thread are so defensive and bitter. Apparently it's OK to teach children the wrong thing because someone's ego and mistaken sense of authority are far more important It makes me really sad for what awaits my children in school.

Don't feel sad - honestly. My 3 children at at 'ordinary' state schools (both primary and secondary level), and the vast majority of teachers have been hugely professional, intelligent, caring, compassionate people, without the kind of ego or obsession with hierarchy demonstrated by a PP. I can count on the fingers of one hand the examples where I've thought poorly of a teacher's behaviour (one, notably, who refused to accept that washing raw chicken went against the FSA's guidance, because her 25 years teaching experience trumped that )

Should have said - that teacher was a Home Economic teacher

Fortunately my DD's school treat volunteers very well and appreciate what we do, in all the years I've volunteered at school I've only come across 1 teacher who treated volunteers like shit (the one I mentioned up thread), now no one will help out in her class and they're always begging for volunteers - it's my daughters class now and I refuse to volunteer in her classes.

I may only be a volunteer and bottom of the pecking order, I don't have a degree, I don't spend hours marking and planning, but I do know how to spell accommodate.

When I quietly pointed it out, I didn't think for one minute the teacher didn't know how to spell it, I just assumed it was a silly typo made when quickly typing out the spelling list. I didn't expect her to insist I was wrong and tell me it wasn't my place to point out mistakes. I noticed it when photocopying it and thought she'd prefer it to be changed before it went out than have 27 kids/parents point it out to her.

As a volunteer I've never sharpened a pencil, unless I was using it. The kids all sharpen their own. I listen to reading, help in art and cookery lessons, although I'm a bit wary about opening my mouth now

Interesting blog relevant to this subject from a teacher:

"Equally, there is a teacher in my school who simply cannot use semi-colons (and I’m questioning his use of commas too, for that matter). ... I know that there are children who watch their teacher use this new piece of punctuation, try to remember when and where it could be used, and then, of course, use it in the wrong way. What should be done about this? "

thesequietvoices.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/the-grammar/