Working as a volunteer in school - challenging the teacher

[Jules2]

Here's a pithy subject for other parents and teachers - I really would like to hear from teachers. I've been volunteering in a Yr 6 class at my daughter's school and every week the teacher has made some kind of mistake - be it a grammatical error, spelling mistake or a mistake in Maths. One example was where she asked pupils to put 4 fractions in ascending order and she gave them the wrong answer. I'm not so quick at Maths myself but thought it was incorrect and worked it out after I left. English is my strong suit - I was a book editor and English graduate - so I do know my stuff. But what should I do? I don't want to embarrass a teacher (and she's not the only one) and this particular teacher can be quite defensive. Should I let these errors go? Or raise them discreetly after class - but when it may be too late? Teachers/parents - have you experienced this situation and what would you advise?

Quiet word is fine. Don't understand the attitude of teachers who are never willing to be corrected or learn from their mistakes.

I think that this is the reason that most teachers are not keen on having volunteers, who are also parents, in the classroom. You need to think carefully about your role. Your job is to help the teacher by doing what you are asked to do. Your role is not to grade the lesson or make judgements about the teacher's subject knowledge. I feel your pain as I have observed errors that make me cringe. If you want to raise concerns about your daughter's homework, you should withdraw as a volunteer and complain or raise the issues as a parent. Being corrected by a colleague is quite different to being corrected by a parent volunteer.

I hope Charles Ryder teaches my kids.

I started this thread on the "say nothing" team but have become convinced that mistakes should not be allowed to stand.

The real problem here is that the school thinks there shouldn't be any mistakes and that any mistakes spotted should be covered up. I think the real answer is for schools to send out thank you notes per mistake spotted - put the correctors to work!

I think she teaches in a behavioural unit, sleepymorning, so I'd be careful what you wish for!

I was totally with Charles Ryder until the 'judgey' comment, which surprised me and didn't seem to fit with the ethos of her post.

I think being open to being a fallible human being is, as a teacher, a huge strength. I would be happy to be told I was wrong by a pupil but would find it hard if it was another adult in front of the class, but would be fine out of class.

Aren't we all supposed to be "Lifelong Learners" or something? At least that is the jargon in Scotland. I love lessons where I learn something new.

The 'judgy' bit was about OP running to mumsnet to complain that the teacher is rubbish.

I would not be pleased about a visitor to my classroom deciding to herself I was rubbish at teaching because she witnessed me making an error on my whiteboard.

'Mrs Ryder, I think you meant 5 there you doofus' would be completely fine.

The

Jules2 - do you think it would be time to stop volunteering at this school?

You are very scathing of all the professionals. I'm afraid I don't think anyone would be very interested in the views of a volunteer. Suck it up and do whatever it is you have been asked to do.

The teachers sould give rewards to pupils who spot mistakes and let the parents know they are doing this. This means parents won't feel the need to correct, instead they can encourage their children to. The teachers save 'face' as it suggests there might be a few purposely thrown there.

(My grandad used this method very successfully. Learn from the best )

I bet lots of teachers do this - I know I do. It's important for children to feel the classroom is somewhere where they can safely ask about something they have seen/heard without feeling too frightened to because of a teacher's potential reaction.

Some pretty aggressive attitudes from 'the professionals' here.
Not all, mind, some good open responses but those that aren't

If, as a professional, someone pointed out a mistake in my work, in a well meaning way, I'd be grateful and mind I took care not to make the mistake again.

I am a primary school teacher so feel qualified to answer - I would be happy to be told if I had got something wrong (better than perpetuating the error). Hopefully I would be told politely. If I know a volunteer is very knowledgeable in a particular area, I may ask them to contribute to the discussion e.g. if they belong to the particular religion or culture that we are studying or if they have an Art History degree and we are discussing a particular artist.

If a teacher is constantly making basic mistakes, this is a legitimate area of concern. I am aware of teachers who cannot spell relatively simple words or have a poor understanding of grammar. In primary school, my daughter was told off by one teacher and kept in at playtime when she pointed out (correctly) a factual error that the teacher was actively teaching the class.

I think this is different from occasional mistakes which may appear in letters home etc. These are often rushed and may be due to a typo rather than a lack of knowledge.

Hmm, yes, poor old volunteers do seem to be the lowest of the low, don't they?

Ah, well, when they are viewed like this, they'll pick up on it and stop all that pesky unpaid volunteering and teachers can be totally free of them...

If, as a professional, someone pointed out a mistake in my work, in a well meaning way, I'd be grateful and mind I took care not to make the mistake again.

This^^^

I don't understand why it matters who points the mistake out - and I definitely don't understand why a volunteer should never do this, in a polite and discreet manner.

Feenie is right.

How to correct without patronising, that's the challenge...

I once observed a lesson, of a trainee colleague. She was teaching Shakespeare to 14-15 Year olds and, allegedly, had a degree in English Literature (as do I).

She began the lesson by introducing "Romeo and Juliet" as, "The only Shakespeare play with any love in it."

She now has an actual job in a real school (she failed her TP with us) and will, no doubt make unforgivable errors. I could go on about her failings at length.

However, slips and mistakes happen to us all yet there are still some truly shocking teachers out there.

Looking at you Maths Department

Yes, but to be fair, this was not said to their faces, TheTrouble. Added to this, as fair few TAs do not have a great deal of education(although some do), it is a very low paid job, so this is understandable.

I am a parent, a qualified teacher and volunteer at my kids school. I have volunteered for 3 years, I always work in the basis that it is the teacher's classroom, it is her space, I am a volunteer. I always defer to her and refer the children to her or the TA if there is a question/discipline etc.

As I said up thread I really would not comment on anything unless it was being taught specifically.
So if a teacher was teaching that a noun is an action word, I would quietly say something very apologetically, not in front of the class.
I wouldn't comment on spelling mistakes etc in class. But if a spelling list came home with a misspelling, I would write it in correctly and get dcs to learn it correctly, but not comment.

I love Charles Ryder's approach and think it is wonderfully healthy.

But there are often threads on here with really appalling mistakes being taught, with a child's correct spelling crossed out and they are told to learn the 'correction' and so on. If there was a teacher like that, with persistent issues I would be complaining. But, as a parent, not in my role as volunteer

My dh was on the schools direct programme (school-based training). His mentor thought that the plural form of a word like "teacher" was "teacher's." And, quite astonishingly, she criticised his English. Sigh.

My daughter was once praised for standing in a "cue".

Don't say anything. It would not be worth bit. Teachers think their farts smell of roses.

I corrected a teacher in a class I helped out in once; she spelt gnome as knome on the board for kids to copy down. I pointed it out quietly and she just corrected it, no fuss. However, she also appeared to appreciate me asking her how to spell another word a few minutes later (genuinely checking I got it right - I had) as it showed I wasn't over confident with my spelling either. I have also ignored other errors where the work was already done and too late to correct.

I helped out in two similar sized schools; one has probably 100+ hours of free labour a week from parents (often very qualified, some teachers themselves), the other had no other parent helpers. I stopped helping at the second after a term as I got no thanks and no one talked to me. i didn't feel welcome so stopped - my time was too valuable for that. It did seem a great shame though as the first school gets so much out of its volunteers.

I have not volunteered in school ( I work full time), but I have contacted the class teacher on several occasions when worked examples in maths homework sheets have been wrong, or when marking has clearly been incorrect. I would struggle to bite my lip if I was a volunteer.