No sense of where my child is in the class

[Enjoyingmycoffee1981]

I was very anxious about my August born son starting school this year. As it turns out, it has been fine. I am actually gob smacked at his progress. Before school, he knew how handful of letters, no sounds and blotchy counting.

Now he is reading!!!! Not everything obviously, not even close, but if he doesn't recognise the word by sight, he can sound it out and then gets it.

I would love to know how this compares with other children in his class. I want to know if he is doing well for a summer born, or if he is doing well. Period.

I have asked the teacher and she said, yes he is doing very well, but it is a large busy school and that was the sum total of our conversation.

So I would be keen on your thoughts.

He is 4.5, he recognises all letters of the alphabet, he can sound them all out, he can identify a number of words without needing to sound them out e.g. It, is, the, and, go, on, no etc. He can read most 3/4 letter words by sounding them out.

It is this doing ok, or is this just doing ok for a summer born?

Thanks v much

Mars should read mrs

I could tell you how each child is achieving against national expectations but I don't group my children by ability and our data doesn't rank children by position in class ....

But Mrz, you know and I know that based on the year 2 and year 6 expectations, expectations of the other years were extrapolated. These were widely known and accepted. They were useful for teachers to keep track of pupils progress over what are after all 4 long years for KS2. These were widely used across the country and in common-usage, not just something that a few crazy people referred to.
To say they didn't exist is disingenuous.
Are you so rigid and by the book, that you have no sense of what people want to know, or flexibility in your own approach to talking to parents, that you only ever give a very narrowly (and not even applied in practice in most places) defined and pinned down in government documentation,answer?

Your answers are sounding like the comprehension answers of my children with aspergers. And I am not making a negative comment about those with aspergers before you get offended.....simply that your answers seem to only refer to documented government policy, when you know full well, that accepted and widespread practice often involves schools putting intermediary measures in place to allow teachers to meet the government requirements. Are you really saying that you have never thought of children in Year 1,3,4 or 5 in terms of their levels, or where they are in terms of their individual progress or national expectations? I don't believe you never have.
And if you have, why can't parents know?
And Enjoying makes a fair point about the value of knowing where a child sits in a class. Do you really have no empathy for why parents want to know this stuff? Are you willing to be so rigid that you will only tell levels in Year 2 and Year 6, even if they would be helpful for people, do you recognise that people might find different things useful to know, than you do?
Yes, you are the teacher and you are the one with the information. I start to wonder if there is some kind of power trip involved in withholding that information from people.
I apologise if I sound rude here, but I am staggered by your last comments and their unwillingness to address what are the real issues being raised by parents.

Mrz, shocking last post. I feel incredibly blessed that that kind of closed minded"the computer sayes no" mentality does not seem to be evident at my son's school.

So Mrz,mid your official data doesn't rank children by place in class, does that mean it is impossible for you to give that information out? You are implying that because your official data doesn't record it, you don't know.
Are you only prepared to speak about what the data in its specific formats tells. Do you not analyse that data in your mind and draw all kinds of valuable conclusions? Are you unable to answer the questions asked on this thread or just unwilling?

No to say they have never existed is open and honest. To say that some schools /LAs made up expectations for other year groups is true but these were not the same expectations for every LA or school.

I am absolutely flabbergasted by these responses. Absolute examples of the kind of teacher responses I have described as lacking openess and which lead to the sense that there is something to hide - the root of breakdown of trust.
It's not that the information isn't available, or even that it isn't helpful - it's that some people are simply unwilling to share it. And they come up with very obviously weak excuses for it - so weak in fact, that I think they are now mocking us as parents, because that last response is clearly saying that the teacher knows the information, but is unwilling to share it but will use the format the data appears in as the reason, which is so clearly ridiculous for all to see.

Yes I analyse the data and look for areas of strength and weakness to be extended or supported as necessary. I do not analyse the data and turn children into numbers

You are playing with semantics.
All teachers know the extrapolated Yr 1,3, 5 and 4 expected levels whether their schools use them or not. It would be perfectly possible for ANY teacher, including you to refer to them if they enabled a parent to understand the thing they were asking about. If you choose not to give that information which you know and which could be helpful and is not harmful to anyone else, then I think you are being ridiculously pedantic and obstructive. I can only see it as a control mechanism.
I am glad that no-one has ever said such nonsense to me at parents evening. And as a teacher, I would be truly embarrassed to say such things to the parents of my pupils.

No all teachers do not know! In some schools the expected level in Y1 might be 1B in another 1A and in another 2C there has never been a national standard because the curriculum was never intended to work that way

And would you not be prepared to answer questions based upon whatever expectation your own school use, because it might not be exactly the same as everywhere? Would that hold you back?

My school's expectation were that children make two levels progress over a key stage as stated in the national curriculum so no expectation for Y1,3,4 or 5

Yes, and would you track, either officially or I officially, either written or in your head, where they were each year in relation to achieving those 2 levels progress - if they were on track or not for themselves, or against national expectations?
I cannot believe any teacher had no idea of those trackings, even if not reported anywhere within the school as interim ways for the SMT to predict likely success against government measures in the future. Did your school really not want to know where Year 4 pupils were and if they were where they were expected to be, in order to get to their required Year 6 points, both as individuals and in terms of the year group figures against national expectations? Isn't it possible to give that info to your head and indeed required on a regular basis, but also still'possible to think of the kids as individuals not numbers?

And if the Head ever wanted to know that stuff, and even if they didn't I cannot believe for one moment that you didn't know it. So not telling is being unwilling, not unable.

Of course we tracked progress towards end of Key Stage expectations but not toward made up year expectations

You seem to be confusing two very different things chocolate wombat, tracking progress and ranking by ability.

But what about sharing the information with parents if they ask?

Of course we share information with parents about their child

And they don't have to ask ...

Again, you're not answering what is being asked.
Will you share with them what level they are working at, regardless of their year level?
Will you share with them roughly where the child in within that class?

You do know that information. So will you give it if asked, not just the information you deem relevant.

I would share the level because I have that information I wouldn't share the position in class because they aren't ranked.

I think Mrz is very brave to come on as a teacher and give us her views, and its great to hear any teacher give their take on things.

However she is an individual and has a personal take on this, which is fine...

Anyone wanting to get a rough idea from their childs teacher, just ask. If they don't know, ask them to find out!

As I have said, I am thrilled thus far with teachers however, I did remember one who wouldn't really talk to us parents, and although my dd did really well in her class, there were others I have since found out who fell behind, and were put in really odd positions, due to strange un fathomable decisions. Decisions that were rectified in moments with the next teacher on...

I may be wrong but I do feel when teachers talk to me and dh, she is treating us as new people.... but our teachers are young ish and perhaps not jaded, and projecting past parents they have nasty encounters onto us.

Thank you for answering the 1st question Mrz.
Pupils might not be ranked officially and actually the Q wasn't where they were ranked in the class. Of course you know if they are in the upper/lower half or about average in different areas, whether there is anything official about that or not.
So I under
Rostand from your answer that you are effectively refusing to give that information. It is not true to say you don't know. Rather than say you are unwilling, you avoid the question and instead say that the pupils are not ranked - this is avoiding answering the question, which simply requires a yes or no, because whether the pupils are ranked or not is absolutely irrelevant to whether you would answer the question or not. You have the information and choose not to. That is all there is to it.
I remain surprised that you won't give the information to parents, but flabbergasted by your refusal on here to acknowledge that you won't share this information, but instead constantly revert to answering any question by stating what isn't officially recorded. As teachers we know far more than is recorded and that can be shared with parents and many parents would like to know all kinds of different things that you do know. I find it disappointing that you refuse to share much of what people would like to know and peculiar that you won't simply acknowledge it.

Anyway, no more. Goodnight.
And apologies to others on the thread for what has become a 2 person discussion. I will leave now.

That's ranking chocolate Wombat!

You seem unable to understand that I can't make up information to satisfy you (well I could if I didn't want to be open and honest)

But it wouldn't be true to say that any teacher who has taught a class for a while, could not say if they were in the upper or lower half of the class roughly, for numeracy or literacy, would it. If the teacher didn't know that, something would be seriously missing in their knowledge and assessment of the children in their care.
So there would be no need to make up information. Saying you don't know would simply be untrue.....and lacking openness and honesty.

If a teacher told me they knew but weren't going to tell me that information when I asked for it, I'd be disappointed. If they told me they actually didn't know, I would be horrified if I thought it were true, but more likely shocked at what would be a blatant lie.

As I said, I am a teacher. For various reasons, I took on an extra 2 classes just before Christmas. I could tell you right now, if each child is in the upper or lower part of the group at the current time. I have not written down any kind of ranking information, but as a professional who has engaged with these pupils for a few weeks, I know. I would be lying if I said I didnt know.