3+ 4+ 5+ 7+ support thread 2015

[mumteacher]

I started the below thread last year and have had so many people find it useful I thought it might be worth doing it again.

I have had a number of messages asking if I have any spaces in my classes. I'm really sorry but I have been at full capacity for some time now.

However, I do appreciate that this is a very stressful time of year for parents who have children sitting these private school assessments in January. So, I'm hoping that by setting up this support group thread I can help by answering some questions you have about these assessments.

Hopefully this thread will also contain some useful insight from the experiences of parents who have already been through the process.

My DD was at a private prep that went up to 11 and they were not at all prepared for the 7+

Schools generally work hardest at preparing for their own natural exit points - not those arising beforehand.

AnonyMusty are you a teacher? Banners if its any consolation my DS has forgotten a lot of the maths he learned over the summer as we focused on composition over the past month. It's been a nightmare to motivate him to do an extra hour of homework a day. For parents who's DC who passed the 7+ exam, were your DC eager to do extra homework?

Schools generally work hardest at preparing for their own natural exit points - not those arising beforehand.

Absolutely. You need to understand that just being at a "good" school doesn't prepare for something like the 7+ - you need knowledge of the syllabus, exam practice etc. It would be crazy business practice for schools to assist pupils in doing exams which will increase their chance of leaving the school early!

Some schools actively dissuade it - for example, Hampstead Hill (which is a pre-prep) automatically assumes that pupils will continue to the next year - but if you apply for the 4+ or 5+ elsewhere, they no longer guarantee progression within HHS. I have heard of schools that go to 13 which will not give references for the 11+.

Can someone advise me on how to choose between 4+ at The Hall and 5+ at Arnold House? I think we would prefer AH but would we be stupid to wait for 5+ at TH when the intake is smaller? (Obviously no guarantee of a place at either!)

We waited for the 5+ at TH and had success. Don't think there is much separating the 4+ /5+.

Sorry not a regular here but let me share some unsolicited info here. I only speak from 7+ boys school. Did kings and Westminster as DS was good at non numerical things. My take is ignore each and every voice which says tutoring is not looked positively. It's nearly impossible to cover the grounds expected without lot of external help. Coming from tutors of parents. Kings has squirrel and rowans as feeder school and most of 7+ intake is from these schools. The children are almost like so rehearsed that it's almost scary. I made sure my ds was comfortable with recommended reading list at comet court website. We did it all. Schoffield and sims and lets books for 9+. kings did interviews in pair. 7+ interview had break the ice questions like questions around school and family. Some times table and a comprehension with both boys. Activity morning was about playing some dominos and other maths puzzles. Actual test day is really long. Please make sure you do some mock tests st home simulating actual exam day. Like make them do a 4 hour long test with 10 minutes breaks in between. Get them to talk about favourite holiday/museum Visit and likes..
Westminster under school was a bit different and I was told my DS did really well in other areas but very poorly in non verbal reasoning. We did lots of schoffields and sims and bond books so not sure about reasoning part.

Part 2 of above. Westminster under school requires a bit of good handle on English vocabulary and reading list. So it takes long term preparation. We did not get into any of two schools we tried and now I am doing 8+ exams. This time I am using s tutor and I can see how different my approach been towards preparation. It's a sad state of affairs where those who know the system are at a greater advantage. It's really important that you do fewer exams. Pace the dates with good gap. Do mocks and simulation close to exam and confidence is key. Be patient and smiling and consistent. Find a right tutor (right is key here). We found both school helpful in identifying our problem areas and I wish I went through the tutor route the first time.

Hi examfactory, oh my god now I'm more stressed than ever...
We have been doing papers consistently but have fallen well behind with reading lists. I too used the colet court list as a guide but with all this prep for exams, DS isn't getting much time to read. Is yours doing the whole list? Will they ask them about these books in the interview?
Mine isn't doing Westminster or Colet Court, he's sitting Dulwich, Wetherby and Harrodian.

As a counter voice to the pp, can I suggest chilling out a bit? Our son's at DC on a 7+ scholarship, and has read a grand total of two of the books on Colet Court's list. We didn't use a tutor, just a decent school reception-Year 2, and we made sure he'd covered all the topics listed on for Maths on Alleyn's/Jags/DC websites.
SE London really isn't as bad as some areas of London when it comes to neurotic prepping (yet....).

Don't fall foul of the hysteria about the need for tutors. If your child is bright you won't need one. We did 7+ last year and DS passed for all the Dulwich schools + KCJS. No tutoring at all and very little prep at home apart from running through example papers once a week for a month beforehand.

If you do decide to tutor be very careful. Check whether your current school will reveal that in their reference (lots now will do if they know it is happening). Also be aware that the schools you are applying to know how to spot tutored children and take this into account (commonly during interview questions).

S999, I think I used list as a guiding indicator on level of comfort expected. We did whole list but not with intention of covering a list. Dad liked reading and we went beyond that. We did really well in literary tests because he was at s really good level and it just helped with comprehension bit too.i don't think any interview will be based on a random books .. Think interviewer will find about favourite book and base questions around that. Don't worry about whole reading list.
TheLowKing.. My point is not very different than yours., we did everything slowly and over a very long span of time. DS is good based on feedback and I am very confident he will get in this year and if not it's definitely not end of the world.
My experience is solely based on observation of kings and Westminster under school. Also I may be wrong but I just want other parents to not loose out by not putting in their best efforts. I know personally lots of kids you have been accepted and I know for fact they have had no play dates and tonnes of tutoring and obviously they were good too. Point I am trying to emphasise is simple that it's good to explore a lot unless your DS or DD is super brilliant.

Well, I'm in the don't fall for the hysteria camp. My dcs passed 7+without tutoring, from a state primary, doing similar prep to other above - Bond papers for about two months before and a couple of example papers.

Personally I also think mock exams etc can be counterproductive and the weight of all that preparation can make the child too nervous on the actual day, I've turned up at several of these things now with 3 dc and seen children crying, parents about to have breakdowns. My oldest hadn't a clue what was going on, as I just said they just want to see what you can do, and said recently it probably really helped. Obviously, younger 2 understood more, but by not being over-prepped I think they were more relaxed about it all.

S999, sorry to make you more nervous but I think it's not as bad as it sounds.i think WUS is really daughter after and after all this prep my DS was in top 20% except going below cut off on one subject. Kings was a bit disappointing because major intake was from their own feeder school. I definitely felt feeder school children were at a greater advantage. Just trying to say that most of kids getting in are tutored on s three account, by pre-prep school, by parents and by tutor.
Also two schools I tried were very competitive so that skews my view as well. I wonder children scoring 90% in all aspect must be rare so we must not think two much of streaks of brilliance here and there. My DS was amazing at reading, another might be a maths genius. All that is needed is a plan tailored to each one and covering all the grounds (reading/maths/reasoning/conversational skills/writing style) to a good standard. I thought a tutors will have a good eye and lot of expertise to point the problem area and help. I did a lot and all by myself and thought I should have avoided all the pain and simply let s good professional do it. Though my DS has learned a lot and j have had most amazing time bonding with him doing these things. We are greater friends than before and he is more confident about things and that alone makes me very happy. Good luck to all. I again apologise.. I know no more than anyone but where I live ( sw London ) I noticed there is lot of insider help at work.

Dear Mumsteacher,

I have read through your posts very keenly over the last year. I am interested in 5+ at Habs girls this year. could you please help me understand what kind of assessment it would be? What would I need to focus on? in essence I would like to understand what they expect from a girl for 5+ assessment? I know last year you were not keen on posting 5+ assessment details for habs girl due to your experience with one particular parent..

I am hoping that is still not the case and you can post some hints and tips for this coming year

Hasn't Habs now scrapped its 5+ assessments? Correct me if I'm wrong....

This is the last year.

I see- sorry!

Wow!
My son (y2) is in a reasonable school but my husband is insisting that he sits the 7+ for highgate.

Clearly I am very relaxed about it - reading all the posts of the thread is making me think a lot...
Please tell me i stand a chance if my son is a well-rounded boy and i wont do much apart from a couple of pages of Bond papers every week...

Do they take into account extra curricular activities at all?

see my post below, toatsky, your son is probably doing about the right amount. Over-preparation imo is really not helpful at such a young age, what will be, will be.

Thanks nowirehangers.

I went to WHS this am and looked through the Bond books.
They all say 11+ and that's very confusing I find!!

If I prepare for the 7+ then which age group should I aim for 6-7 years or 7-8 years?

I can see I need to do a few just to get him used to the format!!

Also what about spelling? What if his answers/creative writing are good but his spelling not so?
It is hard to judge whether he is in line/above/working towards....

Finally, did you tell the school and the teachers that you were preparing your children for the exam?
Thanks for the help - I am glad I came here last night and got information.

Just to be more precise we weren't doing Bond papers in the past, only Schoffield ones. Hence me looking into Bond now. Are the Schoffield ones as good?

Don't know about Schoffield, I THINK (it was a while back) I used Bond 6-7 and then 7-8, but as I say, we only did about 5 from each book, that proved to be enough. Someone will come on here and tell you they used 10-11 and all the other kids were only 14-15 though . I don't think the school was bothered about spelling, but each is different, you might want to check. I told the school my dcs were sitting the exams, yes, probably at about this point in the school year, but I don't recall exactly.

Perhaps no one will lesson as the prevailing sentiment seems to be hysterical.... but you do your children no favours by following the intense preparation schedules suggested by some posters. Let your children enjoy being 6 and 7 years old! If they are bright and motivated and enjoy learning and are progressing well at the top end of the NC, they will do well on the 7+ exams. If not, there is no reason to push them as they will only be unhappy in a fast-paced selective school. One of the hallmarks of these schools is that they give very little homework, assuming the children are bright and "get it" without endless prep. If your child needs to do extensive preparation just to pass the entrance test, he will have great difficulty keeping up if he is offered a place.

Hello! :) Could someone possibly help and shed a bit of the light on 4+ entry 2nd round assessment at NLCS? After reading lots of posts here I can only see so far that DD should be prepared to talk about various subjects showing her general knowledge about things around. Would you be able to give real life examples from real 2nd round interviews please? Also I came across a post saying it could be some physical element in 2nd round testing. What exactly is it? And could someone please also explain what the "Teddy bear picnic" thing is??? Huge thank you for all responses!!!