So now levels have been scrapped how will we know what progress our dc are making?

[MotleyCroup]

Ds has done really well in his KS1 end of year report. He's coped with a change of school as well as the SATs (his school didn't keep it discrete) and he's making new friends.

Question is, at the end of Y3 what then? If things stayed as they were I would know, by his next parents evening, what (if any) progress he was making. Now how will I know? What will be put in the current systems place?

Why have they scrapped the current system (when I'd just got my head around the meaning of the levels)?

I agree that for some children mainstream is best and for other a special school can offer far more but the point is that choice isn't up to teachers or schools and keeping a child back year on year until they reach a standard that may be forever beyond them isn't an option.

So what is the option? To keep the child moving forward, year after year, in the wrong setting whilst falling further behind giving the teacher an impossible task, affecting the child's self-esteem, affecting any chances the child has of getting appropriate help. Is that a better option? I really don't think so.

You are very used to the UK system therefore you cannot envisage things can be done differently.

Timetoask,

So in the system you come from, is there a very large specialist school' sector (in the UK it takes c. 3% of children BUT the coverage is patchy - in rural areas there may not be good provision for specific disablities for long distances)? Or is it simply accepted that some children may stay in the lowest class throughout their school years (or may e.g. progress a class every 2 or 3 years)? What about children who excel? Do they move uop more quickly (I cannot imagine ANYTHING more boring than having to stick strictly to an age group curriculum for an able child who can already do it all)?

Some children with severe SEN are always going to be behind their peers but as long as they are making appropriate progress does it really matter?

(In my current class - no children on the SEN register - children's actual attainment spans 3 full NC levels; around 3 years' worth of progress at KS2. It is the narrowest ability range I have ever taught. The dividing line between 'able to cope with mainstream' and 'not' is a very difficult one to draw, because in every class there is a spectrum and drawing a line which says 'these children progress / these don't or 'these ion mainstream / these not' is really not as clear cut as it seems)

Exactly, mrz.

my class are only 6 years old and attainment spans 3 whole levels and all have made a level's progress this year

In the USA, the curriculum still allow kids who already pass the test at the beginning of the topic do something more challenging. In the rare cases where a child is held back a year, usually at the end of grade 3 where differing development and abilities tend to level off and it is obvious the child will not be able to keep up with the rest of the class, they are only held back once.

I can believe 6 year olds would vary greatly by ability, but not as much by age 9. But in the UK, by age 11/12 there is a too high degree of differention. I think kids are getting set on a course when they are too young.

Am I completely off base?

sorry, differentiation

yes you are ... a real example one of our Y6 kids was 2 years behind in Y2 due to a language processing disorder. He's made 6 years progress in 4 years and achieved level 5 in his KS2 SATs ...no keeping back, no withdrawal.

Ok, but that is specific case, I'm talking large quantities of kids

great story though - I love hearing stories like that.

Ok another example - child transfers into Y5 working at Y2 level leaves us working at national expectations ... we do it year on year our SEN pupils make good progress

But I'm talking about - forgive me if data is too rough

roughly 35% at level 5
and I think 40+% at level 4 a the end of KS2.

Isn't there, again very rough estimate, a year and 1/2 difference between a level 4 and 5? You could many kids in the age group with substantially more held back.

Well I suppose it is a little similar because the US breaks kids into gifted, honours, regular, and low IQ/SEN classes. At around the same age.

honours classes have same curriculum as regular, but given more width of curriculum - and the kid has to do their homework or they go back down to regular!

We have 96% level 4 or above (4% was child who arrived 8 days before the tests) and 60% are level 5 or above

but that's not typical based on national comparative data. When my daughter started school in the UK in year 5 they said she's average and so she was 4b across the board at thend of year 6.

I wish she had been in your school. She is currently targeted for a 7 in one subject at the end of year 9. the rest will be 5 and 6s.

So your school is a one form entry, mrz? I'm presuming so because to have one child equating to 4% it must be a 25 child cohort.

Do you think you do things differently to other schools, or just better?

If your school, which is not a leafy-suburb, 'naice' school can do it, why is the picture so different nationally?

What should be happening that isn't?

Perhaps an unfair question to ask just one teacher, but why are you dissatisfied with below pear progress and why can you change it, when other schools are either not dissatisfied enough to do something about it, or simply decide that a child who isn't really grasping the basics but has excellent attendance is making satisfactory progress after all?

Yes we are single form entry.
I don't think we do things better than other schools, nationally many schools are doing as well if not better than us but we do things differently to some.

I think ANY move away from 'levels' is a bad thing.

I live in Scotland which is labouring under the disastrous "Curriculum for Excellence" and there is almost NO assessing of levels in Primary at least. Children are expected to meet 'a level but some will be earlier and some later' - but the 'level' is over a 3 year span - ie it is SO ridiculously woolly as to be completely worthless.

Children can finish Primary before severe dyslexia is 'noticed', for example.

This is the reason we wish to move away from Scottish education.

Please tell me it isn't all about to change in England and that testing and assessing for support (if needed) isn't about to all change????

That isn't what is happening in England firstchoice.

Children will still be assessed/tested at the end of each key stage against national standards and schools will have to show how they track progress just there won't be the current level 1-8 system

Thanks, mrz.

That is good to know.

What system will replace it, please (sorry, should read the whole thread but would need a simplified explanation anyway as I am not familiar with previous system)??

Be grateful for any enlightening

• To keep the child moving forward, year after year, in the wrong setting whilst falling further behind giving the teacher an impossible task, affecting the child's self-esteem, affecting any chances the child has of getting appropriate help. Is that a better option? I really don't think so

SORRY To read this out of context but it drew my eye because in our school, children on FSM are also given extra budget for that child and they get extra help..so just wondering why....and why other children like one described here, wouldnt get extra help? I mean the fsm child could be our DD, we are border line....but our DD is v bright and well supported at home with HW and learning...so why should she get extra funding?

PSBD

'm just a parent - but I truly think if teachers actually want us to treat you as professionals you need to be able (and maybe that does require training) to calmly relay actual information to us about our child's academic performance - good/ bad or otherwise. You shouldn't hide from those hard conversations, you should have prepared ideas on what to do next or be prepared to provide support/ guidance shortly after relaying news (good/ bad/ otherwise)

Totally agree, another great post there.

• PastSellByDate Sat 12-Jul-14 09:40:59

excellent post there....excellent...it makes sense....i wish you would write that to dept of eductation, i think your right about culture too...

parents should be encouraged to ask about their child but see on here enough how parents are scared to ask anything...

it needs to stop like you said teachers need training with how to relay information to parents..i understand some parents will be there hogging teacher for hours over nothing but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because of one or two odd folks, again schools should have systems on how to deal with this...

IamSlave

data on FSM kids shows less achievement on a whole so I think the government is trying help schools with substantially more lower socio-economic status kids. Its a good thing for everyone. The help the FSM child gets frees up the teachers time with everyone.

I know it seems unfair but there is not perfectly fair way to do it.