So now levels have been scrapped how will we know what progress our dc are making?

[MotleyCroup]

Ds has done really well in his KS1 end of year report. He's coped with a change of school as well as the SATs (his school didn't keep it discrete) and he's making new friends.

Question is, at the end of Y3 what then? If things stayed as they were I would know, by his next parents evening, what (if any) progress he was making. Now how will I know? What will be put in the current systems place?

Why have they scrapped the current system (when I'd just got my head around the meaning of the levels)?

Forgive me but didn't teachers report children's progress before levels, numbers etc?

Do we not trust them at all?

I do find it worrying that current levels have been scrapped with (what it seems) no forethought as to what will replace them for Y3-Y5 dc, as PSBD explained, you may then only find out that your dc has either been left to coast or even fallen behind by Y6, by which time there's no input a parent can do to help or air their concerns!

So even though at present ds is doing well I may have no way of knowing if he is falling behind until it's too late. I also don't want him 'coasting' if he can be pushed to do more.

Trust?
Well yes I fully trust dc1 teacher this year. I don't trust dc2 teacher who has just told me now and only because I asked (ir there is no mention if it at all in his report) that he is actually very behind spelling wise.
Actually no one really mentioned a big issue last year either. Just that he was about average.
So here us a full year lost where we could have supported him at home. It's the same teacher who to me with dc1 that some children are just bad at spelling and that's it when I asked what I could do to help

So YY to trust the teachers but I also want to know what us going on to support my dc and where necessary push the teacher

The thing is, as a teacher and as a parent, it is good to be able to 'calibrate' qualitative comments ('good' progress / doing well / works hard / bright / able) with something more quantitative.

'Good' progress - do you mean 'has made progress at the same rate as the class [but is still behind]' or 'has stormed from 'a bit ahead' to 'amazingly ahead' of their age'?

Doing well??? Could mean anything.

'Bright' - bright as in a 2A against an expected level of 2b, or bright as in level 4 in Y2?

It is also useful to have something fairly universal. Against a very bright cohrt, an average child might appear to be doing less well. Againts a low ability cohort, they may shine. A level is useful to give persepctive in both those situations.

Primary Curriculum Framework with content by years or y3/4 and y5/6.
Can they do what is written in the Year X curriculum? If so, have they started to acquire the skills in the year above? If they are struggling with their own year group's curriculum, which year group has the objectives they can comfortably do? Where are their strengths and gaps, and what do they need to learn next?

And if - as children achieving at levels 5 and 6 curtrently are - they are achieving within the secndary curriculum, what then? There is no 'joining up', while levels simply go through from 1-8 and are not phase dependent.

[Is it Friday, I imagine that many schools are likely to start doing something like this. They might describe a child as '3-4+' or '3-4-' or even 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 - very level- like -... but then you come to subjects like art and see how flimsy the curriculum documents are and you are in the realms of making it up as to what a level might actually mean]

My thoughts were more beginning year 1 curriculum / work at level of year 1 curriculum / working beyond expectations of year one curriculum (but not yet into the level of year 2 curriculum) - for ease lets call them 1c, 1b and 1a. Then the same for the year two curriculum, so let's call them 2c, 2b and 2a .... Oh, that sounds very familiar!

LumieresForMe & PSB

Totally agree with you. My concern isn't that I don't want to trust the teacher. I want to be able to support my child consistently in order to ensure that "getting behind" is nipped in the bud at the earliest opportunity. Even if that means coaching at home which so many MNer's say they are against. Teachers are wary of parents who ask too many questions, as they see it as a personal attack. But what is the alternative? To leave it to the teacher who has to manage a class of 30 - that your child will reach their potential. and when /if there is a problem we will let you know - (how far down the line, is the question) No thank you! If things fall apart and I am suddenly told my dc is not doing as well as expected and has fallen behind, I do not have the means to afford private education nor tuition to bridge the gap, therefore until such time as schools are open with parents in what children are being taught, and how they are expected to progress along with how they actually are progressing, at regular intervals - I will continue to be the pain in the * parent who asks those awkward questions, especially when things don't appear to add up!

So levels with descriptors is useful for many parents and what is wrong with googling for an explanation? Are we supposed to keep it in our heads or use them as a reference? It's ok to google for everything else but not for information about what our children should be learning. I don't see anything wrong with teachers being held to account as in other professions.

I can't understand how you can judge children's academic success or failure using levels and not expect parents to want to understand the process. Harping back to "when I was at school my parents didn't know anything about my progress at school and I managed ok" - doesn't add weight to the argument as teaching has changed, education, family set up, expectations and yes for better or worse teachers too have changed.

So whatever replaces the levels - if it's another cloak and dagger tool then we shouldn't expect the anxiety / concern around them to be any different.

My concern isn't that I don't want to trust the teacher. How sad.

I share the concern that has been expressed by many. The current levels system might not have been perfect, but they were at least indicators of how much progress a child was making. I can't really understand how the new system is going to reflect that.

It's only through using this site that I know about this. We've had a detailed report for DS with leaflets explaining what the levels mean but on the other hand there is no mention on the report, from the teacher, ht, on their website that anything is changing. Maybe they're holding off until the start of September.

If a child moves school how do the schools communicate without levels? Replace yes, but to get rid off something before you replace it is ludicrous.

IsItFridayYetPlease

Yes - my point is that the overall scheme of things my overriding concern would be having the information to be able to support my child - rather than "leave it to the teacher" After all if problems do arise - my child will move to another teacher every year and the buck stops with me as a parent. It would be nice to have trust in your child's teacher but we know that life is not like that as there are good and bad!

Agree, Lumpy. Even if I didn't understand the levels, I had something to refer to at least. Now it just seems 'vague news'.

Lumpy, exactly. If school A calls a child 'a Q' and school B says they are 'a 2' and school B says they have 17 points, and school D simply says they are achieving below the expected levels, how on earth is it going to work??

Great posts retro and pastsellby.

Forgive me but didn't teachers report children's progress before levels, numbers etc?Do we not trust them at all?

No I don't frankly.

I was left to squander and skink lower and lower in a class of god knows how many being taught nothing until I moved aged 10. I never caught up on maths or grammer.

So a resounding no, I don't leave everything to the school, and with so many children failing at school none of us should.

I consider us to be extremely lucky that we have had two amazing teachers thus far, reception and year 1...but I am not resting on laurels I will continue to support my child at home and continue to keep an eye on her progress, and I will continue to keep on top of it because at the end of the day, no teacher on this earth cares for my own childs education as much as I do.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. This is the whole point!
Gove doesn't want parents to know how their children are doing, because then they will complain if their progress is less than adequate, and they will exercise some form of parental choice. If you only discover at the end of Y6 or Y11 that your child is totally failing to learn anything, well- it will be too late as your child is already leaving. The govt don't want parents to be able to compare schools, as that just gives them a headache when schools become over-subscribed., and they don't want parents to shy away from Chain Academy Junior

I have no idea what level my dd may have in any subject but know how she is progressing, what she can do, where she needs help etc.
this was the same for my much older dc long finished school.
My youngest is H.ed and I have learned that levels aren't important and don't mean anything.
If you are really worried about progress you would ask their teacher, coming home with work they don't understand then help them.
As parents its our job to be in charge of their education, school are there to help educate the masses.
Learning is important, not levels.

The DofE have explicitly said that they won't be providing anything - schools will have to come up with their own systems but somehow still use 'national standardisation' .

I predict we'll soon have to PAY private companies to use THEIR systems.

V scary.

We've already been approached by a private firm, btw, it's already happening.

The Dfe specifically said schools would have to wait to see what private firms were offering (i.e. selling).

Sorry I think the term was "approved providers".

So we're going to have to PAY to mark children's' work.

I've stepped through the looking glass...

selling?

selling what? why cant schools do it by themselves?