Being a black child in a private school

[harunsmummy]

Hi, I hope this doesn't come across in any way prejudice or wrong. DH and I have recently been looking at schools and trying to choose whether to send our DS into a really good state school or a pre-prep. The main concern we had was that most of the pre-preps we visited had mainly blonde haired/blue eyed children. Our son is very confident, able and sociable but I feel that if he is in a school were he is in the minority that this may effect his self-esteem and development in some way.

I also found that a lot of these schools the children tend to "stick together". As in, all the white children were in a group and the ethnic minorities such as Asians, Chinese etc also stuck together.

So, now were are thinking whether it would just be better to send him to a really good state school (West Dulwich) where he can have a mixture of social backgrounds and be able to connect with other people that "look like him".

Does anyone have any experience of sending their child to a predominantly white school? If so, what's your thoughts?

p.s I went to a predominantly white school until I was 9 but this was not the same social class, as most of the kids came from working class backgrounds so the parents were we could say less "stuck up". I might also mention that this was in Kiev, Ukraine back in the 80's.

"I guess different people would have different perspectives. I spoken to a few family friends who have mixed and white children in private schools and depending what racial side they're from they tend to report different experiences."

I think this is very true.

It sounds to me as though this is more about avoiding narrow minded bankers and their trophy wives than race.

DD's private day school (not London) is predominantly white, maybe about 20-25% not white British, but that 20% is a huge variety of ethnicities and nationalities, and everyone seems to mix pretty well. The one glaring absence is any non-white teachers, which I think would make the school feel more balanced.

Ahhhh, the trophy wives. They can make you feel like keech.

I remember one housewife complaining heartily about having to climb the five flights of stairs in her house (in a gated road in a very nice part of town (which was all paid for by hubbys company, as were the school fees and living costs). Another used to complain about the number of holidays she had to take because her husband would get fed up being stuck in London and would love to jet off to go skiing, to the Maldives at half term, etc... One would come flying into the classroom, (Hermes bag, Tods loafers, Rolex, etc) and grumble about the nannies (one for each child).

Some of them really come from a very different world (although when you speak to their parents at the gates and find out that dad was a teacher and mum a housewife, you do wonder where they get the attitude from!).

Our previous school was like that - very wealthy, very privileged. Jetting off to their house in The Hamptons, or yachting, or house in 'the country' (and you are wondering 'which country?'). Most were absolutely fine, but there were the cliques which definitely had the attitude of 'why would you work? Is it just a hobby or do you enjoy slumming it?'.

Current school mix is far more 'normal' but there is no attitude, no edge, no snotty atmosphere - the kids are more relaxed, are nice to each other, have fun... and still get good results.

You need to go and see the school in action - watch the interaction of the kids with each other and the teacher (and the Head - do the rush up to say 'hi' to him/her, and does he/she know their names, or run the other way?).

Check out the PTA activities too - if they have a Summer Fair with tombola, name the teddy bear and cake stalls, great! If they hire out the Royal Albert Hall, Cirque de Solei and the Royal Cavalry Marching band, then you are in trouble.

my experience is that a lot of the private schools are "more mixed" in terms of culture and ethncity more than "outstanding" or "good" state primaries which tend to be more homogeneous. I sent my daughter to a private prep school because as a mixed child ( one grandparent mix of Ghana, Sweden and one mix of Togo and English) I did not want her to go to school being the oly black child. I have 3 DC and my eldest looks mixed, my second completely white and my youngest looks full black. So they will all join big sis in due course. I do think at the younger age children either are friendly with those whom they already know, or thier parents form a relationship with parents hence you will still get "segregation" within some mixed schools. The best thing I can do for my DC is to send them to a school where the colour of their skin is not a daily topic or the textureo f thair hair, or being told they are "exotic" and the like so it was private for us. Whom they befriend- I hope it will be those wholike them for the content of their character.

I think the childrens out look is very much affected by the parents. In this case I think what school you send your ds to will make no difference.

Ffs

The culture of the school makes a lot of difference too. If it is a highly competitive school environment, with very competitive, aggressive, pushy parents, then the children will be awful little brats. They will pick at each other, no matter if you are white, black, green with yellow spots, or purple.

nicename I do agree with your first sentence. But in a school that is highly competitive and the DC is the only white child, only black child or only asian child, they are more likely to be picked on or descretly picked on for example, my child fell over, staff (ignorant) and some children were amazed her blood was red and the under skin pink! Or being called the colour of soil, or constantly being asked about things that highlight the differences, it not just children being inquisitive. If the school has more of a mix of cultures, then at least the school should be more switched on regarding what is acceptable and what is not and how they deal with situations that arise. I have found, in the private sector the threat of moving my DC and not enroling DC2 and DC3 is more of an insentive for the school to knock bad behaviour. We will never get rid of it, but if the children can be educated with out the constant reminders of thier differences, then it best IMHO.

rabbitstew was you experience of schools that are in catchments where the area is majority of one ethnicity?

Yes, tbh - majority white British, with no particular majority within the "minority" groups. The private schools nearby are less mixed, though, not more mixed. I find white British people very unfriendly and insular, sometimes, despite being one myself! Interestingly, my children have as many friends from "minority" groups as the majority, despite the larger number of white, British children at the school. I think this is maybe partly affected by it being an area where a lot of people were born, grew up and then stayed, and we're not one of that group??

We've been to very mixed schools and in my experience, its the uber pushy ones/parents that have made for the worst culture of unhappy/unbalanced kids.

I suppose the mixes we've had has been so far and wide, its the full range of colours, nationalities and cultures I'm used to. Skin colour never really came into it because there was such a wide mix. In fact, we were seen as the 'exotic' ones as I am British and DS was born in London and sees himself very much a Londoner. In the current school, there are children of all colours but its predominantly 'white' looking. But when you listen/get to know them (our son incuded) you do find that there is still a huge variety of backgrounds - and again race, colour, creed just isn't a commentable thing there.

Well- I really think it depends on the parents in your year group. My eldest has a bunch of friends whose parents are very down-to-earth, in the school for the quality of education, and this reflects the whole of the year group. In my middle child's year group, the parents are very status-driven, shall we say, in the youngest's year group, the parents are v pushy, but not so status-obsessed- so 3 completely different foci.

As a sweeping statement, it is the status-obsessed parents that look down on others the most... until they find out which is your child then it's all false smiles, and afternoon tea invitations...

There are certain cultures that are more status-obsessed than others, but IME it's not White-British that form those groupings.

I am sad to say that those parents that are isolated most are those that never do pick-up, drop-off, attend sports day, assemblies etc- mainly because no-one knows who the heck they are, and their children tend to miss out on play invitations etc. As nice as the Au Pairs/nannies/nounous are, parents don't tend to include them because they don't relate to them the same way.

Do you have Netflix? If so there is a brilliant documentary called 'American Promise' that deals with this exact issue. Have the tissues handy though.

I think your concerns are valid OP. I'm I'm afraid I can't speak for schools (especially private schools) but having worked at a couple of London medical schools - which by their nature attract a very high number of students from South Asian backgrounds: Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs - I was genuinely quite startled by the extent to which students segregated themselves along ethnic and religious lines. So it does happen. Maybe it becomes more of an issue later in life/further along in the education system.

Adults are more likely to huddle together than children. In our nursery the children come from a wide range of backgrounds - all colours, creeds and nationalities - from all around the globe. They just get along, playing together, squabbling over who gets the tricycle, sharing their biscuits at snack time...

All valid points. Thank you very much :)

Probably like most people, I have unwillingly found myself attached to the World Cup, so between the games, taking care of work and family AND also starting the Cambridge Diet I haven't had much time to respond

Someone asked whether it was more of a class issue rather than race...and yes I'd have to agree. However, the two do unfortunately tend to go hand in hand. Although, as Fram slightly touched upon, class can be a case of "perception". You've reached a certain stage or level in your life and all of a sudden you think/feel that you are above everyone. Quite sad really.

I for one, am glad that we no longer live in Clapham. It was mentally starting to weigh down on me. I wasn't sure whether it was a race issue or because I wasn't complaining about our cleaner not turning up on time to clean DC nappy . Ridiculous. I have never been one to show off and change myself in order to be accepted and the little "groups" and segregations they formed really left a lot to be desired.

I suppose bottom line is that I never want my child to feel as though they have to question themselves, morals, principles or EVEN race in order to be accepted. No one should ever be made to feel like that, which is why we wanted to put this question forward and see what response we might get.

Thanks

p.s ds current nursery is AMAZING. There aren't enough words to put together that will give them justice. Excellent staff and a good mix of culture both within the staff and children.

To give an example, there are parents both BLACK and white who honestly think they are walking on water . I would say hello and they would just bared faced look in the other direction, to which I think to myself..."Ok, I won't be doing that again". On reflection dh doesn't actually socialise with the kids of such said parents. I have found that, yes he has a group of "best" friends whom he absolutely adores and they do include an array of backgrounds (a few English blonde hair/blue eyed, Spanish, Portuguese and Caribbean), but he will not socialise with the children of these parents and he was no interest in doing so in the future whatsoever. An interesting thing is also that the parents of his "besties" tend to be people I have some common ground and similar personality traits with, so we can have chats with none of all that pretentious nonsense

My son's boarding school is quite ethnically diverse - he tells me that the British born students tend to mix regardless of ethnicity but that the overseas students (mainly from China and Russia) tend to socialise together which is understandable in some ways.

My daughter has just finished the 6th form of a grammar school - she has a very mixed group of friends but she says there are other groups that stick together mainly along religious lines.

I think it depends a lot on the individual school. When we chose a school we went with the one that we both looked around and just went 'yes', as we walked out. We were open-minded about state or private, but one school really stood out for us as being the right fit, and so it has proved to be, so I'd say go with your gut feeling. If the other parents are stuck up the kids will be too, and if they aren't at age four they will soon enough absorb the prejudices of their parents.

Its also about how comfortable YOU will feel at the school gate. If you dread taking/picking up your DC and feel anxious about any social gathering its not going to be a happy fit for any of you.

And this is very relevant, from my experience:

I am sad to say that those parents that are isolated most are those that never do pick-up, drop-off, attend sports day, assemblies etc- mainly because no-one knows who the heck they are, and their children tend to miss out on play invitations etc. As nice as the Au Pairs/nannies/nounous are, parents don't tend to include them because they don't relate to them the same way.

Those of us who are there every day have got close. The FT working mums, however nice they are, just aren't around.

Are you sure they're all blond haired and blue eyed?

Or are you placing caucasians into one visual stereotype?

I do find it sad the way children do seem to divide themselves based on ethnicity at senior school. At DDs school, the white, black, Chinese, Asian - Muslim, Hindu, Sikh - children all seem racially separate, though obviously all get on well superficiously. Makes it hard for my very mixed race DD who is neither white, black nor Asian enough for the various divisions. She is happy enough and doesn't mind, but I think it is a shame that these racial divisions exist.

At DD2s school, she is the only non-white girl in the class, which brings its own issues.

There are only 4 white children in my child's class and this is top fee paying prep school.

OP I wish you were here today - at DSs SW London school fete. Its a bit hot but hey, they have pimms!

I'd say the breakdown is pretty much a reflection of London. People from all over the world, all races and colours. I really don't think a child of african, japanese, russian, israeli, arabic... origin would feel as if they stood out here and I am not seeing cliques.

Parents and teachers are all very friendly and I have just met a friend of DSs that he has known for a few months now, and who I haven't met. She is black. I never knew. He never mentioned it.

DSs friends are... of origin - libyan, english, russian, italian, french, syrian, swiss, indian, hong king chinese, belgian and some others I can't tell.