Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

year 1 phonics check

575 replies

SmileAndNod · 19/03/2014 19:59

Does anyone know if this is done in the summer term, or is there no set time for it? Also what exactly is it they check? That they can decode a word rather than read? It was mentioned at the start of the year but nothing since!
Thank you

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
mrz · 27/03/2014 20:27

It doesn't work for words that have no sounds CG

columngollum · 27/03/2014 20:28

heh?

AuntieStella · 27/03/2014 20:31

Phinetic is indeed useless in this context.

The term (I think) you're after is phonemic. And yes, all natural language is built fom phonemes.

Various graphemes (too many, according to Masha and othe spelling reformers) represent those phonemes.

mrz · 27/03/2014 20:32

Do you agree we use letters and combinations of letters to represent the sounds in words CG?

mrz · 27/03/2014 20:33

I'm agreeing with you CG ...phonics doesn't work for words that have no sounds ...unfortunately there aren't any!

columngollum · 27/03/2014 20:39

ah, right. Oh, well, there you are then. Everything's OK.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 20:52

Yes, well, don't spend too much time worrying about masha. There are people who spend time worrying that the glass is half empty and people who worry that the glass is half full. For what it's worth, I think masha and CG spend too much time concentrating on the differences between words and not enough time worrying about all the things they have in common.

Housemum · 27/03/2014 22:29

OK, so our school are obviously doing it "wrong" as I'd been told there were words that did't break down into the phonics sounds - never realised what a minefield this is!

So, phonics experts, could someone please explain what sounds make up "people", "ocean" etc as shown above? And why I wouldn't say them as peh - o - pl, ock - ee - n/os - ee - n etc? (Hard to explain what I'm trying to say there)

maizieD · 27/03/2014 22:51

'Sounds' shown between / /, spellings ' '

I think what you are really asking is how are the sounds which make up thedse words spelled; the 'sounds' you hear in them are pretty self evident.

'People' /p/ /ee/ /p/ /ul/ 'oe' is a very rare spelling of the /ee/ sound
'ocean' /oe/ /sh/ /o/ /n/ (or / /uh/ /n/, depends on pronunciation) 'ce' for /sh/ is rare, though similar to lots of other words where 'ci' spells /sh/ (musician, electrician, optician etc.) in that e, i, or y after a 'c' frequently changes the sound it represents.

'etc' abbreviation of for /e/ /t/ /s/ /e/ /t/ /e/ /r/ /a/ Wink

These words are not a problem, they would not be introduced until learning of straightforward code is secure and phonics taught children are able to take rare sound spellings in their stride because nobody has filled their heads with 'rules'. They know that a few words are going to be unusual because they have been learning 'tricky words' from early on.

It's parents/teachers who don't understand phonics and phonics instruction who have the difficulties.

And who spend lots of time looking for words which are 'irregular' in an attempt to triumphantly confound phonics teachers Grin

columngollum · 27/03/2014 22:51

In the case of people

I think "eo" == ee

turns up in several Ancient Greek words.

aqueous (and so on.) But, we need to be careful not to confuse them with equally worthy ligatures (which might have come to us via administrative uses of Latin in the hands of British monks.)

columngollum · 27/03/2014 22:55

Not Greek/Latin.

columngollum · 27/03/2014 23:23

OK, maizie, but it shouldn't really be about confounding anybody. We should, in theory, be able to have an adult discussion about these things and agree to disagree.

Adult disagreement is an ideal.

mrz · 28/03/2014 07:01

Actually maizie I find lots of parents are far more clued into phonics than ITT providers Wink

maizieD · 28/03/2014 08:21

They're certainly, in many cases, more rational and open minded about learning to read but, as threads like this demonstrate, not all of them are.

columngollum · 28/03/2014 09:34

Not really. But the problem with discussing reading on mn is that it's just taken as an opportunity to brainwash anybody who looks vaguely willing to listen to anything.

Mashabell · 28/03/2014 11:04

I admit to wanting to open people's minds to the possibility of spelling reform. – The media have of course been interested in me mainly because of that. Some of the phonics fanatics are aware of it and use it as something to undermine the credibility of everything i say.

But i post on here because i also know a great deal about the in and outs of English spelling (possibly more than anyone else alive), because i spent many years taking a really close look at them. I do so, because i think that my findings are highly relevant to discussions about the teaching and testing of reading and writing,

The fact that the 43 English sounds are spelt with 205 graphemes is clearly one of the reasons why learning to read and write English is more difficult and takes much longer than in languages which use fewer. – This is a complete no-brainer: learning to read and write with 205 graphemes inevitably takes longer than with just 50 (the European average).

But most parents and many teachers are not aware of this difference between English and comparable languages. They are even less aware of the still greater reason for the slower speed of English literacy learning: much of the learning makes no logical sense.

Having more than one spelling per sound, such as date, day, rain, would not be so challenging if they were used consistently. But they are not. They are undermined by dozens or even hundreds of unpredictable variants, e.g. great, they, reign, which have to be individually memorised and which undermine the main patterns and make them harder to grasp (they cause what psychologists call cognitive confusion, or put more simply mess with children's brains).

For children with plenty of brainpower, and especially if they get lots of help at home as well, this is still quite manageable, even though they also take around 10 years to become proficient spellers. For children at the lower end of the ability range, and especially without educational help at home, this is an enormous educational roadblock.

– They take a very long time to become fluent readers, if ever. And as other learning depends or learning to read first, slow learners have less access to other learning. So it's not lack of phonics teaching that leaves 1 in 5 functionally illiterate. There is simply too much to learn.

I think this needs to be far more widely understood than it currently is. That's why i keep writing about it.

maizieD · 28/03/2014 14:27

But the problem with discussing reading on mn is that it's just taken as an opportunity to brainwash anybody who looks vaguely willing to listen to anything.

Don't worry, cg. Your brain is still as dirty as the day we first met you..Wink

luvmy3kids · 28/03/2014 16:21

The pass mark is being released to schools after the test is administered. This is because of the controversy over maladministration. There was huge jump in scores at 32/40 words read correctly - it's a very interesting graph :-) The good news, is the data won't be recorded for each individual child. It is just a measure for the school. My daughter failed it at 22/40 words and it doesn't bother me bit, because I think it is more appropriate for the end of year 2. Not all 6-year-olds can focus for the whole duration of the test.

columngollum · 28/03/2014 16:25

Maladministration? You don't mean:

You tell me the pass mark and I'll tell you the score that most of my children got, type maladministration, do you!

mrz · 28/03/2014 16:49

Not all 6-year-olds can focus for the whole duration of the test it lasts less than 5 minutes! and can be administered in two or more parts Hmm

simpson · 28/03/2014 18:13

I would have serious concerns if my yr1 child couldn't concentrate for the duration of the phonics screening tbh.

luvmy3kids · 28/03/2014 18:27

Yeah, but its harder for 6 year olds than adults. And it must be really boring. I wouldn't be troubled at all if my 6 year old didn't focus the whole test - she's just a baby. You are very demanding of a young childSad

columngollum · 28/03/2014 18:31

40 words shouldn't take that long to read, luvmy. It's almost exactly the same length as your last post (and this one)!

If a child can't read that much I think mum's got bigger problems than the screening check.

mrz · 28/03/2014 18:37

Sorry luvmy3kids but I've administered the check since it was introduced and even the children with statements of SEN didn't find the time an issue.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 28/03/2014 18:52

I actually think a lot of children will probably quite enjoy the phonics test. bit of one to one time with a teacher, something laid out a bit differently (assuming they haven't been practicing), some pictures of aliens and so on. I can't honestly imagine them not being able to concentrate for that amount of time.

but then I don't think a 6 year old IS a baby. Babies to me are under a year old, then they are toddlers, then young children.