Really don't know what to do... schools, money, distances, despair...

[PrettyBelle]

So, the DD didn't get in either of two private schools at 7+ - have no idea what went wrong, the poor thing has worked hard daily since September, her school report is glowing, but then both schools, which are nearest, also happen to be very competitive.

There are other good schools which are non-selective but all at some distance away. Yet, I also need to drop off DS to school and then commute to London for my full-time job (1 hr one way if I am lucky). So the difficulties are as follows:

1. Un-feasibility of doing two school runs and then get to work remotely on time. Same with pick-ups.
2. Two private schools will eat up my entire salary (but DH also has a job and I get some freelance income too).
3. Not entirely sure about paying £4000 per term for a non-selective school for DD.

On the other hand:

1. Disillusioned with DD's state school (DS went to it before and I see a massive difference not that he is in private).
2. We could manage financially even if my salary will be spent on school fees.
3. Main point: we are a bilingual family and both DC seem to be behind in English so I believe being in small classes would help them with that.

What the hell do I do???

After going through the posts, I am not entirely sure why you want to move DD to a private school? If you area is as competitive as you describe, you'd still need to top up (DIY or tutor) to get into a selective at 11+ - moving from state to private and getting smaller classes won't solve that. The most a private school would do is do some reasoning work, throw papers at them in autumn term of Yr 6 and do interview practice. Is it worth paying £4,000/term from Yr3 to Yr6?

Don't get me wrong, I haven nothing against private schools - DD is at one now and will be going to a private secondary, but I don't quite see your rationale for this from your posts. Especially, since it seems to involve a lot of financial sacrifice.

If you are looking for private school to "fix" your DD's English - it won't happen. The only way to do it is through one-to-one targeted work. I am speaking as a mother of a bilingual DD with another language spoken at home. What you need to do is to get her reading with you (or another adult), underlining interesting expressions, idioms, unfamiliar words, etc. Making flashcards and memorizing words. Then making sentences with them. Then working on sentence structure. Reading fiction and non-fiction. Discussing it. Learning synonyms and antonyms. This is a lot of work that YOU have to do (either yourself or with a tutor) - DD just reading lots on her own and being in private school are not substitutes for that.

A state school normally finishes at 3 or 3:30 - there is plenty of time to do top-up work at home without tantrums. From your posts, I assume your DD is at after-school club - why don't you invest £12k per year into getting an after-school nanny who could pick DD up earlier, do work with her that you set, get the tutor at that time, etc. and then go for 11+.

Thanks a million everyone, lots of helpful advice and much needed support!

irisha, you say your DD is at a private school now - are you really only paying for what you say: "The most a private school would do is do some reasoning work, throw papers at them in autumn term of Yr 6 and do interview practice. Is it worth paying 4,000/term from Yr3 to Yr6?". My DS's school does a whole lot more than that so worth the cost.

PrettyBelle,

What I am paying for has nothing to do with academics. Yes, it's nice that they have sets for English and Maths from Yr2, it's nice that they do Latin and French, but fundamentally that really, really doesn't matter at primary level. I am paying for no discipline issues at school and for kids who have parents with similar values. Games 3 times a week, lots of drama, huge emphasis on manners, etc. But I certainly wouldn't pay for that at primary level if it involved a logistics nightmare, doing exam prep with a 6 year old and financial sacrifice.

And ultimately, whatever schools say about individual work and approach, they don't have the bandwidth to deal with everybody's individual issues. I mean, how do you see them developing vocabulary, given bilingualism? Yes, they will give some help in English if she is struggling, but they won't take it to the next level. It's a lot of targeted work that you can only to one-to-one based on your DD's needs. Unless she is one of those driven kids who would underline and check every unknown word in a book she is reading (I haven't met any kids like that BTW). Vocabulary development is an example that you can apply to anything.

I'd be curious to know what your DS's school is doing that is a game changer - I really struggle to see what it could be at primary level academically.

Irisha,

I can absolutely relate to what you are saying about the benefits of your DD's school and that's something I would really like for my girl seeing as she is creative and very into performing arts. In terms of values, her current school and the potential junior school have middle-class parents who value their children's education and we never had any behavioural problems there. It is a relaxed approach to academic subjects, less structured learning and absense of homework that bothers me because while this approach might be OK for other kids, I saw how much both my DS and DD improved with just a little of extra work at home.

As for my DS's school - well, where do I start? :) They have science as three separate subjects - biology, physics and chemistry - from Year 5. They have been doing music theory from Year 4 (so he has a lot to catch up on as he is learning an instrument). They have a separate teacher for every single subject. They have diaries and about an hour of homework a day. There are 2 parent and teacher consulations twice a year - 1 for academic subjects and 1 for the rest. Each lasts 30 minutes, you get to talk to every teacher - not 10 minutes involving 1 teacher that covers all. Everything is completely transparent and I like that a lot - as I parent I know exactly what he is doing every day, he brings the files for each subject home so I see the curriculum, I can leave the notes for the teacher if need to.

He does French and sports 4 days our of 5, he plays competitive matches every week, he is learning IT and has been borrowing my laptop for weeks doing some school project. They have a swimming pool. It was a struggle to get him to do any work at home last year but now he is doing it all unprompted. He has become more responsible and academically has already improved, going by his school reports. They have the merits system so he knows that hard work gets rewarded. He is actually learning and not just having fun - which, by his own admission, what they did at his previous, a very reputable state school (before it was rated badly by OFSTED however it didn't seem to make it less sought-after).

Having said that, it could be different in girls' schools. For example, all selective and non-selective girls' schools that I visited have science as one subject at the primary level. And one of the selectives even had just one teacher for Maths, Eng and Science.

So do you think it's the fact that everyone is in the same boat that has made him knuckle down to work? Or just the fact that he's a year older?

How well would a similar regime of sport with science with sport on top suit your daughter? (One of mine would crawl under the nearest bookcase and hole up there with a copy of Delia Smith's Good Cake Guide, but yours might love it.)

And finally, how are your state secondaries? No need to rush at separate sciences from year 5 for every child; some might be better coming to it later.

(I'm a scientist, by the way.)

What I would do in this situation - some money, but not unlimited- would be to weigh what opportunities a private school would offer against what you yourself could do for your dd's education with that time and money.

I also speak a different language and have bilingual children but have always felt that the disadvantage is offset to some extent with the extra provision I am able to offer in terms of a very good home library, visits to the theatre, extra drama groups etc.

But that balance is going to be affected by all sorts of things, not least by how much you would have to sacrifice to send her to a private school.

As a PP said - is your DH involved with the pick up, drop off and extra work?

BirdintheWings, I think it's the fact that he was in the same boat. DD is not into team sports at all.

There is a good state secondary nearby.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch, with regards to DH, our jobs are located quite close to each other so we usually go in one car and so do the drop-offs and pick-ups together. If either one needs to work late we go in separate cars. Doing it daily would of course make the drop-offs easier but would cost about 11-12 per day in fuel and additional mileage on the cars.

He does Maths with DC (being a Maths professor), I do English. My job involves a lot of speaking and writing so I know that my command of the language is high enough yet when it comes to helping the DC with it I genuinely don't have a clue - so, once again, thanks for many helpful suggestions!

It's a bit early to know if your DD enjoys team sports. She is only 6.

If you are going to struggle to pay the fees for the non selective private. I would write a list of the sacrifices the whole family would make and the benefits.

Eg. Not taking the children to the theatre
Struggle to afford daughters dancing fees
Lack of holidays and family days out

Benefits
Trust the private system
DD hopefully go to a better university

cory, What I would do in this situation - some money, but not unlimited- would be to weigh what opportunities a private school would offer against what you yourself could do for your dd's education with that time and money.

I wish I knew that for sure! I wouldn't have any doubt about one of the selectives into which DD didn't get. I had some reservations about the other. I love the look and the feel of the two non-selectives I've shortlisted but is that "love" worth 12K per year for the next 4 years?

I keep coming across references like "there are some really mediocre private school" on this site so have to be careful.

Margetts, the way you put it it's a no brainer. :)

Actually, it's funny. While DS was at his state school I was always on about getting into a good secondary school, excelling, getting into a top Uni, etc. and hence pushing him and worrying whether he is not falling behind. It used to be aimed at achieving results. Now that he is in private I feel relaxed and just want him to enjoy his education; and if he doesn't get into the the top senior - well, that's not the end of the world. So it's like putting him in the private sector took the edge off the whole thing.

Ah, ok, so any change of hours will mean you both leaving early or getting in late?

The extra fuel costs per day are probably less than you losing hours and hence wages from your working week though.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch, we both are not paid by hour so fuel is added cost regardless.

I meant if you requested a change to your hours through a flexible working request - most salaried people get a pro rata reduction for that.

What I was suggesting was would you still be able to afford the little luxury that give children childhood memories.

Although we do a lot of free activities like going to the beach, bike rides, playing in the woods etc we are able to afford treats.

My DD lives ballet and every year we go and watch A Christmas ballet and have a nice lunch first. We both really enjoy the day. My DH takes my DS to watch football, they enjoy this time. Ever year go to a pantomime and all enjoy it. We are able of to send them on Cub and Brownie camps which they really enjoy.

IMO these are the things that give children good memories. So just make sure you can still afford things that can give children happy memories and lots of fun. Rather than parents stressed and worried about money.

Margetts, thanks for your helpful post.

I agree with you completely. There is a lot of hysteria going on about private school in the area where I live and I cannot help feeling like I am a bad parent for not being able - or being reluctant - to pay for a private school for DD.

I was a straight A student at school, always have been very able and academic, have a Masters. DH didn't excel as much in school years but got a PhD at 24 and DSc at 33. So I guess we expected that our DC would be little stars too. And ironically that's what we have always been told, by teachers, by tutors - that they are both very bright! So I cannot help but think that they would do brilliantly if only they were in the right school.

On the other hand, I do resent having to spend such huge money on it - money which could go towards repayment of mortgage, house extension, or a reserve pot for DS's senior school. Guess that was part of the reason why we didn't take DD's school place last year - I was not sure I wanted to pay for it for a 6 y.o. when I had an older child to think about, and secondary education is arguably more important. On the other hand, at that time I didn't know that the prospective junior school would receive a bad OFSTED rating, it was always outstanding before. And I guess I am still not sure - because if I were, I would have just gone for the non-selective and make it work somehow.

Well, anyway. Maybe I should go back to those non-selectives, let myself become disenchanted and stop worrying where there is nothing to worry about.

OP

Were you and your DH excelling at age 7?

It's not the "now or never" moment for your DD.

OP

Were you and your DH excelling at age 7?

It's not the "now or never" moment for your DD.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch, I was educated in another country where we only start school at 7, and all schools are academic by nature. We do have selectives with entrance exams, competition, etc. but at the senior level.

But it doesn't matter, does it? We live in the UK and 7 is the age where your child is supposed to either be very advanced (either by natural high ability or thanks to private pre-prep) or forget about getting into a high-performing school. And not getting in at 7 probably means a lot less chance of getting at 11.

Yes, there are plenty of kids who are doing just great without all this 7+ and 11+ mayhem and get into good Unis eventually - but then I would guess that these kids would also have no trouble getting into selectives, should they choose to do so?

I know you meant your post as a reassurance - and I do appreciate it a lot - even though I probably sound bitter right now.

You know, my children are at state schools. My dd has just had 5 offers for Russell Group universities.

Most kids don't go to private schools, you know......

OP you do realise that it is very possible to go to a 'good' Uni without getting into a selective school?

My brothers and I all managed it despite going to a pretty rubbish state comprehensive.

The way you are talking about it is as if her life and opportunities will be over if you can't get her into a pressure-cooker school within the next 12 months.

If you really are that stuck on her going private at secondary, then accept that you probably need to pay for non-selective private now because that will better equip her to get a place than going to a poor state junior school.

Sorry, posted too soon. The scenario you paint, prettybelle, applies to a tiny minority of children in the UK. Only 7ish% go to private school! and a smaller minority go to these ridiculously competitive London preps.

Op, I have spent my whole life in the UK and I don't think of education in those terms. As curlew says, only 7% don't go to state school - I was state educated and so did DH and we've done well academically.