I saw a parent-child interaction on the way in to school that made me want to weep..

[chaosagain]

.. and I don't know if there's anything I could or should do about it.

I was going into my daughter's primary school to help out this morning. I arrived around 9.25am. As I was locking up my bike, I heard a woman screaming at her children to get out of the car.

They were obviously late for school. Of the 2 kids, 1 in particular was on the end of his mother's wrath. He was probably around 7 or 8. As they walked up to the door of the school office in silence she started shouting at him 'you're a worthless sack of shit. You can't do anything, can you? You can't even get fucking dressed by yourself. Why can't you do anything? you're useless'. he muttered something I couldn't hear. She responded 'no, I won't fucking leave it, you sack of shit'. He refused to go up the steps into the school office for a moment. She shouted at him 'you'll go up or I'll kick you until you bloody do', grabbed his wrist and dragged him up.

It wasn't just the words, but her manner. She was furious, shouting and seemed not very in control of herself. The boy looked upset, weary and just locked his gaze on the ground - he didn't make a fuss, cry or shout back at all.

I arrived at the office reception a few moments behind them. She was asking the secretary to ensure his playtime got taken away from him because he'd made him and his sister late for school. Mum left. The secretary was lovely to him. She also phoned ahead to the classroom (after he'd left) to let his teacher know he was coming, was upset and might appreciate a warm welcome even though he was late.

As I was signing in the secretary said to me 'I hate it when they come in like that, so upset. It doesn't help them at all.' I said 'Mum was really angry with him

I wanted to tell the mother (but didn't) that she shouldn't be at all surprised when her son started to talk to her the way she talked to him and that no-one deserves to be spoken to with so little respect, least of all a child. Perhaps I was a coward but I felt she was so angry that there wasn't anything I could think of to say that wouldn't rile her further or inflame the situation.

WWYD, if anything at all? Try and talk to the Head? Just accept that there isn't anything I could do based on that one interaction? It's stayed with me all day. I really felt for that boy and wondered how he'll ever grow up with any self esteem when his mother tells him he's worthless so vehemently....

Well, the Head was listening but was also obviously frustrated. She said she could guess who I was talking about before I mentioned the child's name and said that she's called Mum into her office in the past to talk to her about how she speaks to him and to offer Mum support or to sign her up to courses (e.g. Raising sons in the neighbouring children's centre). She said Mum hasn't generally been very receptive so far but that they'd been thinking of trying to link her up with help getting ready in the morning - she really struggles with getting him to school.

She said that in a way it's a shame that I hadn't witnessed clearer cut physical abuse as she knows from "bitter experience" that social services will have no interest at all in the case at this stage. She took notes, asked me to email her with exactly what I saw and heard and said that she'll ask Mum to come in again to talk to her about how she speaks to her son.

She thanked me for taking the time to talk to her and wanted me to be reassured that they'd include my note on his file, talk to Mum and that they are doing what they can to support the family and especially the boy.

Reading between the lines I sensed that there was a good deal of history here that she obviously couldn't share and she was at pains to offer me reassurance that they're on the school's 'radar'. I could see she was upset about it although she was entirely professional.

She was also slightly relieved, I think, as she'd had a message that I'd asked to see her about something I'd seen while volunteering in the school yesterday and was baffled that I might have seen something concerning while in the classroom with my DD's excellent teacher. I don't think that relief detracted her from taking it seriously, though. I still feel very sad for that poor boy and a bit depressed at there seeming to be no real prospect that things will improve for them as a family any time soon..

Good for you OP. Concerned people speaking up on behalf of abused DC is so important. The mother is clearly a known abuser

Sad reading, if this is the way the Mother treats her boy in public God help the poor mite when he is alone with her behind closed doors. You have done all you can, you have taken time out of your day and tried to help a child, which is commendable. It sounds like the HT is frustrated and concerned about the Mother's parenting, but the main thing is that the school are aware of the problem.

If only parenting courses were the solution to this vile Mother's behaviour.

It sounds like she is taking it seriously and it's reassuring tat they are already keeping an eye on things.

:( It's sad when there seems to be so little anyone can do until (& often even when) a child is physically abused. Poor little mite.

I actually don't think it necessarily means that worse goes on behind closed doors. A lot of people are exactly the same all the time, not caring what others think of them.

I think the worse abuse does happen behind closed doors. How many times do you read an interview with some famous person only to hear about horrendous abuse that went on behind a veneer of 'happy families'?

Well done chaos x

You should have told the receptionist there and then! From the sounds of it it's not a one off so I would like to think the school are helping the family in some way.

I dread to think what that poor boy goes through on a daily basis :(

You've handled this really well OP. I agree with the head teacher - SS will have no interest in getting involved based on what you say. However, that does not make it right and you absolutely did the correct thing by sharing what you saw with someone who is in a position to take it further.

There's been a real lack of 'oh poor mum, mustn't judge' on this thread which I'm really pleased to see. OP was shaken and scared by witnessing this incident, and that's as an adult who was free to walk away afterwards. Imagine living with that woman's verbal and physical abuse day after day and having nowhere else to go. I really hope that things get better for this family one way or the other

helpful, Pomfairy, d'you want to RTFT before commenting next time?

well done OP, you have done everything you can. If it was down to me (a good thing it's not, I daresay!) I would have these children whisked away from their abusive parent(s) immediately. If she can sort herself out, great, but her children should not be subject to abuse while (if) she does so. But that's not the way it works.

The Head's response seems v reasonable to me. Clearly they are monitoring the situation closely. Do you think it's one the awful situations where a parent favours one gender of child at the expense of the other? I've seen a couple of scenarios like that in the past though not as extreme as this one - with mums favouring younger 'easier' sisters and attacking the oldest (boy) child because they either don't know how to manage them or can't get to grips with it.

There was a thread quite recently where an OP heard a neighbour shouting at his little son for half an hour calling him a cunt and other things like that, on more than one occasion. The OP was asking for advice about what to do and more than one person derided her and politely (and not so politely iirc) suggested she keep her nose out.

Whether it happens all the time or only once, it's still abuse. I can be Mrs Shouty of Shouty St at times, but I would never ever treat my child like that. I feel so bad for that boy.

I am glad that people like Chaos live in this world. Far too many of us walk on by.

Ralph, I'm often stunned by some of the excuses others on here come up with for shocking parenting. It is tragic.

Oh, I am quite sure the Head will be frustrated by her inablitliy to do more for this boy/his family.

I have to say, in your shoes, I'd be v tempted to log a phonecall or even write to the local SW Child Protection Team so even this episode is on record there.

There are huge attempts currently UKwide to make information sharing between agencies better, but it's not great at this point. School - SW - Primary Care don't always know what goes on with the other agency which is one of the factors that allow people to fall through all nets .

Well done for going, really well done x.

well done. I saw a very casual, but nasty piece of behaviour towards a small child at school pick up the other day, the head was right behind me, and I took him aside and detailed what I had seen. He was extremely grateful and thanked me several times.

I have worked in school and done CP courses, so have no compunction about reporting incidents I see. I never engage with the adult. (been there, regretted it mightily!)

Well done chaos

Well done, Chaos. How would you feel about contacting SS too. Just to expand their file, as it were? The more reports they get, the better, I would think.

Well done OP, you've done the right thing.

After all the awful cases in the news recently I wonder if there has been a bit more outside 'interference' from people when concerned that such tragedies would have occurred.

It's heartbreaking to think that that poor little boy has probably worried all day at school about what he'll face when he goes home.

Hopefully the head teacher will put all staff on notice to keep an eye out for future incidents which could lead to more formal intervention if its needed.

SirChenjin - I was only citing Gove and Cameron as, we are led to believe, they are at the 'top' and SHOULD be in a position to improve things, if the will was there.

I was a voluntary family support helper, through the local council, for a few hours on Saturday or Sunday for four years. On occasions, I saw living conditions that you would hardly believe possible. The first thing teachers/TAs had to do when a seven year old boy I supported got into school each day, was wash and clean him up so that he was in an acceptable state to be accepted into class.

At the weekend I used to take him to a play park, the woods, or beach for a few hours. I am now in my seventies, and it is only declining health that has forced me to quit voluntary school and family support.

I know what you mean, but up here we have Idiot Alex Salmond at the 'top' and the same things happen north of the border, sadly. No politician or political party has ever managed to stop it - I'm not sure they ever will. It's just awful.

I wouldn't be able to log a report with SS, I don't think. I know only the first name of the child, so there isn't adequate detail to do that.
I trust the Head and I think that the minute she feels she has enough to refer this family to them, she would.

It's a shame that SS don't have the ability to intervene.
I would be tempted to turn up unannounced (catch them in the act), and remind mum that we (SS) take emotional abuse very seriously and because she is clearly having difficulty but REFUSING all help and support that the children would need to be referred or put on the child portection plan.
Who knows, but one day her anger and snappiness could trigger a devastating response for her children ...

Working in a school opens you to some of the very sad circumstances some children live in.