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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

I saw a parent-child interaction on the way in to school that made me want to weep..

106 replies

chaosagain · 07/10/2013 15:34

.. and I don't know if there's anything I could or should do about it.

I was going into my daughter's primary school to help out this morning. I arrived around 9.25am. As I was locking up my bike, I heard a woman screaming at her children to get out of the car.

They were obviously late for school. Of the 2 kids, 1 in particular was on the end of his mother's wrath. He was probably around 7 or 8. As they walked up to the door of the school office in silence she started shouting at him 'you're a worthless sack of shit. You can't do anything, can you? You can't even get fucking dressed by yourself. Why can't you do anything? you're useless'. he muttered something I couldn't hear. She responded 'no, I won't fucking leave it, you sack of shit'. He refused to go up the steps into the school office for a moment. She shouted at him 'you'll go up or I'll kick you until you bloody do', grabbed his wrist and dragged him up.

It wasn't just the words, but her manner. She was furious, shouting and seemed not very in control of herself. The boy looked upset, weary and just locked his gaze on the ground - he didn't make a fuss, cry or shout back at all.

I arrived at the office reception a few moments behind them. She was asking the secretary to ensure his playtime got taken away from him because he'd made him and his sister late for school. Mum left. The secretary was lovely to him. She also phoned ahead to the classroom (after he'd left) to let his teacher know he was coming, was upset and might appreciate a warm welcome even though he was late.

As I was signing in the secretary said to me 'I hate it when they come in like that, so upset. It doesn't help them at all.' I said 'Mum was really angry with him

I wanted to tell the mother (but didn't) that she shouldn't be at all surprised when her son started to talk to her the way she talked to him and that no-one deserves to be spoken to with so little respect, least of all a child. Perhaps I was a coward but I felt she was so angry that there wasn't anything I could think of to say that wouldn't rile her further or inflame the situation.

WWYD, if anything at all? Try and talk to the Head? Just accept that there isn't anything I could do based on that one interaction? It's stayed with me all day. I really felt for that boy and wondered how he'll ever grow up with any self esteem when his mother tells him he's worthless so vehemently....

OP posts:

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BurberryQ · 07/10/2013 15:59

i have also been shouty mum but have not called my children 'useless' or a 'sack of shit' - contact whoever the CP person is (possibly the SENCO)

strruglingoldteach · 07/10/2013 15:59

Yes, write down exactly what you saw/heard- just the facts, with the time etc. Then find out who the school's child protection person is (likely to be the head but isn't always- the office can tell you.) Give your written account to that person, with a note saying that you would like it to be logged.

They will add that info to any prior concerns that have been noted about the child/family. Obviously, the more evidence they have, the easier it is to act appropriately.

BirdyBedtime · 07/10/2013 15:59

That sounds bloody horrible chaos - hope your DD gives you an extra big cuddle tonight.

I would agree that you should contact the school and/or SW dept. The family sound like they obviously need help but if no-one notices then things will go on. As many other posters have said there is shouting, losing temper etc but calling a DC a 'sack of shit' is never OK and the fact that he didn't really react suggests it wasn't an isolated incident.

Tabby1963 · 07/10/2013 15:59

OP you were right not to approach the woman, she was raging and would have turned on you whatever you said.

Like others have already said, send a letter/email to the Headteacher detailing exactly what was said/done. The school may already have this family on their radar and your evidence will be added to other observations so the school/other agencies will be able to deal with the bigger picture and support the family.

I am so glat that the school staff sound like they are aware of the family's difficulties and will be kind and sympathetic to the children.

StitchingMoss · 07/10/2013 16:02

The first reply to this OP demonstrates clearly why kids are still suffering the most appalling abuse in this country - because too many people make excuses for what is shocking and inexcusable behaviour towards a child.

Until we stop thinking "poor mummy" and start thinking this is utterly unacceptable and no excuse will be accepted children will continue to suffer this behaviour.

Please talk to the head. They will have to report your concerns.

Original poster

chaosagain · 07/10/2013 16:02

Thank you. I've was worried my reaction was disproportionate, overly judgemental etc.. Like the rest of us I've been at the end of my tether and recently but felt that they way she talked to him was of a different order -i.e. abusive.

I don't have an email address for the Head but I shall go into the office and talk to them about how to best to contact her when I pick up from after school club shortly.

OP posts:

CurlyhairedAssassin · 07/10/2013 16:06

Boundandrebound: no, I feel no sympathy for the mother whatsoever - none. And I'm surprised you do. There is NO excuse to call a child a "useless sack of shit." It doesn't matter how frustrated you are that he may have dragged his heels and made them late - it's up to you as an adult to reprimand him for that and that alone without the verbal ABUSE. No swearing justified.

I am so sad to hear of situations like this (i doubt it was a one-off incident) because I see the outcome further up the education ladder where they have behavioural or self-esteem issues as a teenager.

OP, you need to report it to school. For the child's sake, not the mother's. The child is the vulnerable one who has no control over how his life operates.

PacificDogwood · 07/10/2013 16:07

It is a good idea to write everything down right now, while it's fresh in your memory.

Then you can use that account to compose your email to the Head.
Does the school have a webpage? I found our Head's 'official' email address there.

Good luck. You are doing a Very Good Thing. Even if the family is already 'known'.

nameimadeupjustnow · 07/10/2013 16:09

Shouting, "Get out of the car, we're late!! Hurry up! Hurry up!!!" Well, you should avoid being there, but we've all been there.

Shouting, "You worthless sack of shit" and asking school to take away his playtime - that's seriously beyond concerning. I would report it to the school. Poor child.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 07/10/2013 16:11

I wholly agree with Stitchingmoss. I wish people would stop making excuses for abusive parents.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme · 07/10/2013 16:11

My dds teacher lives in our road and once when I was at the end of my tether and bellowing across the garden at the dc's it did occur to me that she could probably hear me as could most of the village.

I have worried that I'm a shouty mum and I really do try hard not to be.

But as Chub said, the day I call my children names like that will be the day I realise I'm not fit to have them.

Please let someone, anyone know. If she's quite prepared to shout at that like them at school, in public, where she's got to face the same parents and staff for the rest of the school years, god only knows what they suffer at home.

waikikamookau · 07/10/2013 16:12

sounds like the secretary and probably the school are lovely imo. and would do the right thing.

allyfe · 07/10/2013 16:22

Based on the OP, the thoughts that I have are that the children need help because they have an abusive parent. As I lovemydog said, if she is happy to do that in public, god knows what she is happy to do in private. The mother also needs help - whether it is because she is at the end of her tether, or because she considers that to be an acceptable way to speak to her child/children - she needs help managing her behaviour. I think you should report her OP. Perhaps the school are aware, it sounds like they might be, but perhaps it will just help flag an extra level of concern. Either way, it cannot do any harm, only possibly some good. In my opinion at least.

MrsOakenshield · 07/10/2013 16:23

verbal abuse, pure and simple. If it's a snapshot, it's a snapshot of the life of an abused child. Please speak up, you could be the 3rd or 4th person to do so and a picture will start to build and give these children the chance of a decent life.

jonicomelately · 07/10/2013 16:31

Report her. If she can't control her temper to the extent she talks to her ds like that she deserves ss intervention.
I genuinely do not understand that 'end of her tether' comment

kilmuir · 07/10/2013 16:36

If she behaves like that in public what is she like at home?
I have 4 DC and can be shouty but have never spoken to them like that

Ferguson · 07/10/2013 16:44

I too have worked in schools where I have overheard similar situations, and for many children these things are quite likely just a part of their everyday life. Then the children are expected to go into class, and learn and behave properly!

As I have said before, Gove and Cameron just don't know what the REAL world is like.

But unfortunately Social Services and other authorities are so over-worked and under-funded there is probably little that can be done. So, tragically, some children will continue to be 'invisible, 'under the radar' or 'slip through the net', and we all know what that can lead to.

I don't know if MN, as an organisation, can expose such situations; maybe team-up with NSPCC, ChildLine, etc. (Maybe they already do, but I don't know about it.)

lisad123everybodydancenow · 07/10/2013 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirChenjin · 07/10/2013 16:57

That is awful . Definitely report OP, it's the only way that something will get done.

Ferguson - not just Gove and Cameron - child abuse/neglect goes on in other parts of the UK too where the child protection function is devolved. No politician or party has ever been able to stop this happening

nicename · 07/10/2013 16:57

I'm shouty and very bad tempered but have never struck or called DS a bad name (apart from nitwit and numpty).

GhouldenGreen · 07/10/2013 17:03

You can have sympathy for the mother (it's likely she was once that child, in my view, and therefore deserves some support) but still believe there needs to be an intervention here to protect the little boy. It is shocking that she feels this is an ok way to parent and something needs to change for that family.

DuckToWater · 07/10/2013 17:03

The worst thing is that outcomes are really poor for a lot of children who are taken into care.

Hardly any go on to university, and a lot end up being involved in crime and prostitution. The cycle is not being broken.

Original poster

chaosagain · 07/10/2013 17:58

I have an appointment to see the head tomorrow morning. She's the listed Child Protection person for the school. I thought it was better to just talk to her first and see what, if anything, they'd want from me to record what I heard and saw.

I'm feeling so sad for that little boy. From the secretary's reaction this morning, I imagine that those of you who have said that they're probably 'known' to the school are right, but it does seem important to offer this snapshot up to record nonetheless...

OP posts:

PacificDogwood · 07/10/2013 18:17

Oh, that sounds like a good plan - hope the Head is able to give you some assurances.

Having said that, other than passing things on to Child Protection Services at SW, school can not do much about what goes on outside school hours/premises.

GinAndIt · 07/10/2013 18:28

It may just have been a snapshot, but it sounds like it was a pretty telling one. There is a world of difference between stressed out and abusive. There is a world of difference between being angry and frustrated by a child's behaviour and calling said child 'a useless sack of shit'.

I spent most of yesterday afternoon reading serious case reviews of child abuse (don't ask). I came away from that wishing we, as a society, could start being just a bit more 'judgy' when it comes to the possibility that a child might be being abused.

Afaik, a child has never been seriously harmed because someone stuck their nose in. Plenty have died because no one did.

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