I saw a parent-child interaction on the way in to school that made me want to weep..

[chaosagain]

.. and I don't know if there's anything I could or should do about it.

I was going into my daughter's primary school to help out this morning. I arrived around 9.25am. As I was locking up my bike, I heard a woman screaming at her children to get out of the car.

They were obviously late for school. Of the 2 kids, 1 in particular was on the end of his mother's wrath. He was probably around 7 or 8. As they walked up to the door of the school office in silence she started shouting at him 'you're a worthless sack of shit. You can't do anything, can you? You can't even get fucking dressed by yourself. Why can't you do anything? you're useless'. he muttered something I couldn't hear. She responded 'no, I won't fucking leave it, you sack of shit'. He refused to go up the steps into the school office for a moment. She shouted at him 'you'll go up or I'll kick you until you bloody do', grabbed his wrist and dragged him up.

It wasn't just the words, but her manner. She was furious, shouting and seemed not very in control of herself. The boy looked upset, weary and just locked his gaze on the ground - he didn't make a fuss, cry or shout back at all.

I arrived at the office reception a few moments behind them. She was asking the secretary to ensure his playtime got taken away from him because he'd made him and his sister late for school. Mum left. The secretary was lovely to him. She also phoned ahead to the classroom (after he'd left) to let his teacher know he was coming, was upset and might appreciate a warm welcome even though he was late.

As I was signing in the secretary said to me 'I hate it when they come in like that, so upset. It doesn't help them at all.' I said 'Mum was really angry with him

I wanted to tell the mother (but didn't) that she shouldn't be at all surprised when her son started to talk to her the way she talked to him and that no-one deserves to be spoken to with so little respect, least of all a child. Perhaps I was a coward but I felt she was so angry that there wasn't anything I could think of to say that wouldn't rile her further or inflame the situation.

WWYD, if anything at all? Try and talk to the Head? Just accept that there isn't anything I could do based on that one interaction? It's stayed with me all day. I really felt for that boy and wondered how he'll ever grow up with any self esteem when his mother tells him he's worthless so vehemently....

YOU MUST REPORT THIS. It is everyone's duty to care for children, calling a child useless has long term damaging psychological effects.
Tell the head and ensure they take it with social services.

so sad, well done OP for doing something. I think you were right not to intervene but equally correct in not letting it go.

I'm so glad you're doing something about it. I really do hope it is just a case of a particularly stressful morning and a mum who's lost it badly but temporarily (though it doesn't sound like it). Better safe than sorry though.

OP, I really do think you should insist that the head takes a written account from you. They almost certainly do know the family; they probably do have a fairly clear idea of the child's everyday life. However, some schools are still reluctant to get involved, or have an attitude of 'well it's not serious enough to bother SS'. (Note- I think this is a small minority of schools, and most schools are really hot on CP).

With a verbal discussion, the head could dismiss your concerns, or nod along but fail to act. With a written cause for concern, he/she may be more likely to act.

Or take a written account with you and simply give it to the head. Then she can't minimise.

BoundandRebound what kind of world do you inhabit where it is acceptable to threaten to kick a child until they do something, or tell them they are "a fucking useless sack of shit"? If you seriously think that kind of behaviour can be excused by saying that the mother was "at the end of her tether" then it is small wonder that children die horribly at that hands of abusers within their own families.

Well done OP for speaking out, the child's reaction suggests this was not an isolated incident.

well done OP I think you are doing the right thing. And I agree with Ghoulden Green that feeling sympathy for the mother is not incompatible with feeling that this situation needs checking out.

I've been at the end of my tether many times but have never used such abusive language.

Well done OP.

I'm generally late and having a terrible morning with DD who refuses to get dressed or have her hair brushed or walk more than 3 steps without stopping to look at a leaf/bug/her shoes so I do have some sympathy for the mum as I've got to the point where DD has been so frustrating that I have cried the whole walk home having dropped her off but there is still no excuse to talk to a child like that!

Thanks, this is helping me straighten my thoughts and have less of a purely emotional response to it. I'll just talk to the Head tomorrow morning (I don't have time to write it this evening as I'm playing catch up with work). I think it's more likely to get a positive response this way. i plan to follow it up with a written document laying out what I saw and heard after that meeting. I'll do that pretty much regardless of the response from the Head.

I don't know the school well as yet but they talk the talk on child safeguarding, let's hope (for the sake of those kids) that plays out in their attitude/receptivity..

That is awful. Boundandrebound, we have to be thankful that not everybody adopts such an apathetic view on these issues.

I have had a similar experience in that I've witnessed the bellowing or verbal abuse across a school playground. The child was about 5 and ran into the school car park whilst his Mum walked along the neighbouring footpath. The child didn't have a uniform and the mother yelled at him to get leave the car park (that led back to her on the footpath) as the little C didn't go o the school anymore! I was with my 5 year old son who turned to look along with me at this aggressive woman, she then asked me what I was looking at. I replied, 'you, as you're loud and obnoxious!'

I've also been loud shouty mum at times. Ive got wound up, furious and very fed up at DCs not getting ready, being cheeky and being downright naughty. The worst ive ever shouted is 'shut up' to DD ( and hated myself afterward for doing so), and I have kind of dragged them when essential!

But this womans language was abusive and from what you say, it seems like it was normalised - language she may well use regularly. You are right to report it to the school OP. Well done for taking action and good luck in your meeting today.

I would speak to the school as they are best placed probably to monitor the situation and heat already Bevin their radar.

Some people swear at their children all the time, others shout, some people a combination of both that you could just day is their parenting 'style' however the thing that stands out for me was the threat to kick him?????? Why would you ever threaten that - it is wrong on so many levels that is what would bother me the most

Chaos, well done for making an appointment, this isn't an easy matter to get involved in. Something which struck me about what the other mother was cross about was the reference to the boy not being able to dress himself and taking too long. It would be worth mentioning that to the Head. I've learnt recently that trouble getting dressed can be an issue for dyslexic children. My daughter is mildly dyslexic and is very slow getting ready in the morning, it was very frustrating. When she was diagnosed, we were told that sequencing can be one of the challenges for dyslexic children so getting dressed can take them much longer.

There could be a whole host of other issues as to why this poor child is struggling in the morning but I would definitely mention what she was so angry about in case it ties in with any other difficulties he's experiencing at school.

Regardless though, what you saw sounds horrendous and hats off for taking steps to try and help.

You are doing a good thing op I think you are very kind and brave. Agree eith others that've sgevwill do that in public heaven knows what happens At home. If it's "nothing" then she will have a chance to explain herself if nothing else.

We have all had shitty mornings and lost our tempers but we have never called our children useless sacks of shot. Unforgivable IMO.

I wish somebody had reported my parents when they were heard verbally abusing me in the street/home and physically abusing me. But in the sixties and seventies child protection was pretty poor.

Please report.

No excuse to belittle a child in such a harmful way! Yes we all get frustrated with our kids but to make them feel worthless that is pure evil.i don't care what anyone says!

Having read a few "what could I have done" posts recently I was warning you if a flaming as there seemed to be an awful lots if sympathy for the shouting, swearing Mothers; along the lines of "how can you judge a persons parenting by a 30 sexing snapshot of their life?".
It seems that perhaps those posters have disappeared into the ether a little after the recent spate of children abused & killed by their parents in the media.

How can it ever, ever be acceptable to speak to you child like that, hideous, cruel woman.

Well done for getting the meeting with the Head, I'd put it in writing too, just in case.

Oh my god I hate this phone, apologies for the typos!

I can remember the tome of hate and resentment in the words directed at me. They rang in my ears all day and having to be in school was both a safe haven and reminder of the disparity between what my home life was like and what the home life of my friends was like. Then I started being bullied too (because bullying at home renders you vulnerable to bullying across the board) and school became more of a reflection of home.

Yes I know one cannot generalise from ones subjective experience but going to school with that in your head is hellish. Poor little boy.

Glad you are speaking to the Head OP. Lots of mums can be shouty but this was something else altogether.

Hope the meeting with the Head goes well, Chaos. You are doing the right thing!

(((Mignonette))) my DH had a similar experience - abused at home, bullied mercilessly in school due to raggedy appearance etc. He is now very protective of our DCs and feels very strongly against verbal abuse. He won't use or allow the words stupid or idiot etc.

You are doing the right thing chaos. No matter how stressed you are you just cannot talk to a child like that. :(

That mother obviously needs help!

The family may well need help. Those words are coming from somwehere - maybe the mums parents or other half. You don't just wake up and thing 'bla bla'.

It's an expression that I've never used. Usually when I yell I'm at a loss for words and stand saying 'you...you...you...!!!!!' But this incident sounds like it was very intimidating for the child.