Aarrgghh. Third time DS has come out of school in shitty pants!

[Kyrptonite]

Please tell me if I'm over reacting as I had a baby 2 weeks ago and my brain hasn't fully returned to full capacity.

I've posted before about DS (4) and his toileting issues. He had been doing so much better lately and then today for the third time since starting school came out covered in shit. I could smell him as soon as I picked him up. When I asked him why he hadn't asked someone to help him (teacher and 2 TAs in class) he said something about missing playtime or losing golden time if he's naughty.

I'm not brave enough for AIBU but WIBU to compose an email to school asking what they are doing to support him and why no one noticed? He bloody stank and had obviously been like it a while.

I had a meeting before he started where I explained he has a problem. I let the teacher know last week he was on medication and may have an accident.

I don't want him to be bullied. He's waiting for a paediatrician referral for suspected encopresis. He's managed the toilet 4 times last week and I really thought we were getting somewhere.

I'm more embarrassed for DS. Hoping desperately that none of the parents say anything to their DCs. Why they couldn't have put it in his PE bag and brought that out is beyond me.

I'm also wondering if she meant they'd smelt him before and ignored it because he hadn't told them it had happened.

I feel for you, I had this problem when DS1 was in reception and Y1. Occasionally he soils now (in Y3!) but fortunately not at school any more. His is partly down to being on the autistic spectrum, and despite being very articulate, he simply doesn't care, and the smell and the social embarrassment factors don't enter into the equation in the way they would with typical children! The most incident was during a meeting with his reception teacher she told me she'd walked in to see why he was taking so long, and he'd smeared excrement all over his face! She said she'd never seen anything like it in 20+ years of teaching.

Mostly his school have been fantastic at cleaning him up and sending him home in a set of school clothes. From helping out in class though, I expect it's not uncommon to miss the occasional accident purely because quite a few little boys don't wipe properly so whiff a bit...

Can you just have another word with teacher at the end of school when she lets them out? Alternatively ring the office and request a meeting with teacher and TA to clarify things?

Oh my goodness, sugarmice! Excrement on face does not sound like fun for you or the teacher! I'd forgotten about the amazing lack of disgust you can come across in autism sometimes. I once looked after a child who was obsessed with eating snails. Live ones crawling around the park! Consternation all round, as you can imagine. He was a great kid though- was utterly oblivious to our horror!

I have been dealing with constipation issues with my DD since she was two. She has just started year 1. When she first started reception I was very worried as she could not go the day without a wet or dirty accident. Most days she came out dirty sometimes you wouldn't notice it sometimes it was bad. My DD would not want to have a poo at school and she would avoid the toilets (at home as well) she would hide it and hate to be found out by the teacher. This is part of the problem and in the busy class she got away with it.

Movicol helps but IMO they still have control to withhold. Now we are year 1 she now wants to be clean (peer pressure) and is much better, however, sometimes we regress!

My point is the teacher was great she had a sticker chart and she had a buddy and a neutral adult to taker her to the toilet at times but despite all this she would come out smelling some days! It was not the schools fault. It is a very emotional subject for us mums so wait until your less upset.

Things will improve but it takes time. It's a complex problem a lot of people don't understand.

Just to add I give one sachet of movicol a day. I give two a day if she is getting constipated again but only for a day or two as it makes her poo too runny and she has no control but I know the dose is different for every child.

I would email asking for a meeting indicating it is sensitive

Top tips for hiding movicol:

1 Mix it with milk and pour it on your child's cereal (weetabix works well)

2 mix with fruit juice or squash and make freezer lollies

3 mix with milk plus nesquik

4 mix with water (62.5ml) then add to your child's waterbbottle topped up with plain water.

For 2 yrs ds didn't know he was taking movicol every day. We gradually got him to accept it and gradually got the dose down to every other day as we very very slowly get him to overcome some issues and increase the fruitIin his diet. Movicol in with milk on weetabix is failsafe though.

Ds also had difficulty at school but we agreed a reward system with school which motivated him enough to stay clean there (mostly)

My DD has issues with constipation. One thing I have found that definitely helps is to increase her water intake - that has really helped (along with movicol at times etc)

The other thing I did to help school and ensure ds was comfortable was send him in with spare clothes folded into a large resealable bag (so flat enough not to look out of place in his book bag with some wet wipes and a nylon drawstring bag that could have been a shoebag) so he always had the right stuff and he could get cleaned up properly and not have attention drawn to the problem. This worked well once I'd talked it through with the teacher.

I also encouraged ds to clean himself up with wet wipes as he found it less distressing than someone else helping him.

These things helped day to day in school but the thibgs that made the most difference were movicol and maturity. Ds goes to a tiny village school and also got much more confident over time as there are only 3 classes and he knows everyone pretty well.

Hi OP,

A bit of advice ahead of your paediatric appointment to get you started:

1. Have you visited the ERIC website? They have lots of advice and support regarding soiling.
2. soiling is almost always the result of "functional" constipation, ie there is unlikely to be a medical cause, but the paediatrician will take a history/ examination and possibly blood test to exclude medical conditions. Encopresis is just a posh medical term for soiling which is what DC is doing.
3. Your DC is very likely to be unaware of the soiling himself ie he isn't being naughty or lazy, but due to long term severe constipation, the function of the large bowel is affected. This can return to normal, but takes a considerable period of time in many cases-expect to be on the movicol for months.
4. Make sure DC is drinking adequately and this should be primarily water. Milk can worsen constipation, so he should have no more than 2 glasses of milk a day.
5. is he good with fruit and veggies.
6. This one is really important. Get him sitting on the toilet regularly after every meal (about 20-30 mins after eating you have a natural reflex to go to the toilet.) Reward sitting on the toilet for 5-10 mins regardless of whether he poos or not. Make sure he feels secure on the toilet and have a footstool for him to rest his feet on so he is in a good position. Get bubbles for him to blow or party whistles. He should sit at least after breakfast lunch and dinner, and if he can sit at morning break at school as well so much the better.
7. Aside from sitting on the toilet regularly he needs to be encouraged to go to the toilet as soon as he feels the need to and not hold on. It is crucial school are involved. Are school toilets clean?
8. Movicol is really the very best treatment so it's key to find a way of getting it into him. The paediatrician will feel his tummy to see if he is "impacted" (lots of hard lumps of poo to feel when pressing over the tummy.) If this is the case he will need disimpacting with bigger doses of Movicol before you will see much improvement in the soiling. Good luck OP- it takes hard work and perseverance with soiling.

Would just add get back on the movicol. I also found things like a friend being away from school etc would set us back and you have just had a baby and he has just started school.

I haven't been able to make an appointment. I've drafted an email so if anyone could tell me if I sound insane or if it is ok then I would be grateful!

I am writing with regards to X in Class X. I would like to confirm in writing, having previously verbally informed Miss X, that X is undergoing medical treatment for the condition encopresis. Unfortunately the medication may leave X with little or no awareness that he is going to have a bowel movement and so may result in 'accidents'. On three occasions since starting school X has returned home in soiled clothing. When asked why he had not informed someone X responded that he didn't want to lose his play time or golden time. I would like to know if it is possible for someone to discretely remind him to go to the toilet after lunch as on one occasion he was very distressed when he came home as he had not been able to sit properly at carpet time due to the state that he was in.

I would appreciate it if any of X's soiled clothing could be placed in his PE bag for him to bring out at home time. On Wednesday he was brought out at home time by a TA holding a carrier bag with his dirty clothes in. I'm sure that you can appreciate that this was slightly embarrassing for both X and myself. When I expressed relief that X had felt able to tell someone that he had had an accident the response was that he had told someone and also that the staff had been able to smell him. I would greatly appreciate a little discretion in this matter as I am worried that X's condition may hinder his ability to form friendships and that his accidents may deter the other children from playing with him. X is already saying that he does not play with anyone and that the other children do not want to play with him so it is an area of concern for me. As X has three years in the school with the children in his class I would hate to think that a medical condition in reception could stay with him throughout his time at school.

Perfect

May just want to thank them for cleaning him up just to balance it out.

This may sound obvious but can you spend more time teaching him how to wipe his bottom? My son and daughter arent brilliant and not 100% clean but it sounds to me like you really need to practice wiping with him. You cannot expect a teacher or TA to do this with a class of 30 children. At my school I know of a parent in a similar situation and she is called in from home to change him when it happens. THis is another perpespective, it is your issue that you need to sort out at home even if it means keeping him at home to train him. I really dont see how you can expect a teacher or TA to deal with this they are not their to wipe bums.

Crouchendmumoftwo, just to say OP seems to be describing soiling, ie leakage of poo into the pants, rather than a case of not wiping properly. The nature of overflow leakage is such that it can be very difficult to clean up and certainly I think most very young children would struggle with this, as well as very often not being particularly aware of what's happened.

Which is why it needs treated properly with a total clear out. The poor lad can't help the leaking and it isn't the medication causing it, it's the encroprisis. I hope the op gets back to the doctors asap.

Speaking as a teacher it's very difficult if the child doesn't tell you they've had an accident and as AbbyR says sometime the child isn't aware. I would always clean and change child unless the "accident" was such it required more than school facilities accommodate ...and yes I've had children who managed to cover themselves from the neck to soles of feet as well as the cubicle walls and floor. I've also had "serial" soilers who average 5 or 6 accidents per day and needed changing each time and those who insisted the smell wasn't them and even one who claimed the smell was his dad's aftershave.

I feel for all sides in this situation. The child must be shielded from this, as it wouldn't be fair if this holds him back from making friendships- but at the same time the teachers/TAs have a huge amount on their plates. I cannot manage experiencing this as an adult without appropriate medical intervention and I would encourage the OP to push for more help from the GP.

Poor little dude!

I wouldn't worry about other parents saying anything. In my experience accidents in reception are very common and no one cares. Well not in a bad way. I see children coming out with bags of soiled clothes all the time.

If anything your acting embarrassed is more likely to make him embarrassed.

The email is good but don't think it is clear what the woman said. Perhaps put it in speech marks?

I didn't show him I was embarrassed. I just put the carrier bag in my handbag and we went to the car.

I wish it were a problem of him not being able to wipe. If only things were that simple it would be lovely!

DS is back at the doctors next week after he finishes the movicol prescribed. I've been hiding it in his bedtime drink and morning drink so he has no idea he's on it.

School have just phoned me. DS has had an accident to the extent he needs washing so have to go and get him. They also think I should send him in pull ups as they don't have the resources to change him. The head teacher admitted that she has no knowledge of encopresis so doesn't know whether they would need to get DS more support or not.

I have no idea what to do now.

I really feel for you both.

You need a care plan for him - the school nurse can help you draw one up for him (nurse may not be site based but there will be one the school has access to - unless it's a free school).

The care plan will make a list of the things the school need to do to allow him to access education. Checking he's clean, encouraging him to use the toilet (if appropriate) and cleaning him up will be part of this. If needs be the school will have to invest in the facilities to do this (a private place with running water and a sluice is all that's required although many schools have better facilities).

Whatever the school is telling you it is really unlikely that your ds is the first child they've come across with this problem - it's really fairly common. They should be able to cope without calling you in and without leaving him half clean. And they may not have limitless resources but this is a priority for the resources they do have. Please don't let them pass the buck.

OP, really feel for you. I like your email. Good luck, your distress for your son really comes through your posts. I know you know it'll all be ok, but it's the between then and now that matters to you and him.

Let us know how it all works out with the school. Perhaps a note from the doctor to the school TA and teacher to let them know the condition he's dealing with. They probably think, despite being told, that it's a case of confidence or babyishness...a doc's note holds credence, more so than your say-so. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.