Phonics Test Year 1 Query

[NigellaEllaElla]

DS is doing the "Test" next week. I did a few flash card words with him last night and just have a query.

He sounds out the word but if it has a "y" at the end he sounds it as "yu" as in the letter name, not sound. (Not sure yu is best way of explaining it but can't think of alternative) rather than "ee" but then still says the word correctly.

So for "Happy" he might say "H a p p yu - Happy"

Because he is saying "yu" not "ee" when sounding will this count as a fail even though he knows the word correctly?

Bloody stupid test. He's a really good reader for his age, possibly a little too good cause I don't think it will do him any favours in a test like this!

Thanks in advance for your help.

you still haven't said what are these other ways to read ...

and Mr Gove isn't measuring phonics so that theory is a non- starter

I suppose if you are afraid your child/pupils won't pass convincing yourself that the check isn't worthwhile helps

To a certain extent you can teach comprehension skills.

The vocabulary used for discussing features of narrative and non-fiction books can be taught, with examples, which helps communicate whatt has been understood. For example, a child might notice, subconsciously audibly the effect of alliteration, but when they know this is a feature they can look out for it and think of the effect. Ditto with sub headings. Scanning text can be practised. All this can deepen understanding.

So much can be 'taught'.

^what

Biscuit The screening checks 'standards' and effectiveness of teaching between schools. You wouldn't want your child to miss out on being taught part of the curriculum, would you?

I wish it was not necessary, that standards were high and all teaching effective. However apparently this isn't the case.

How else would you check?

By using real words.

learnandsay But what about being able to decode unfamiliar words?

No, if you read me I said I left primary school not knowing what metamorphosis was. I did find out at secondary, you'll be glad to know! Re the loitering incident, you are making the same point as me! The child decoded it (for which, yes, phonics is a useful tool), did not know what it meant so asked the teacher and then that word entered his vocabulary. next time he sees that word he will not need to decode it phonically because he will recognise it and understand it. That is a valid exercise. In this test the child will read a meaningless word, for which no definition will be forthcoming. The learning has not advanced one iota.

Yes daft dame, that's what I mean. Comprehension skills for communicating what has been understood can be taught, but the actual understanding is part and parcel of reading effectively.

perhaps learnandsay would prefer we restricted children to words they have learnt by sight

Bicuit But if they can decode an unknown word they are more likely to be able to ask what it means or remember it it order to look it up. There are more points of reference.

Biscuit But once somebody has pointed a feature out to you, it draws your attention to it and you can reflect upon it more. This builds on understanding by interaction with a teacher (person acting in this role). Otherwise if left to your own devises features may go noticed.

I'm not against the current test (or the alien words) I just think it would be more useful if the words were real, since we want children to learn to read real words not made up ones.

You are making a huge assumption if you believe that seeing a word once assigns it to our long term memory Biscuitsneeded.

Mrz, there's no need to be personal. I'm not actually worried that my own child will fail the test. I'm just saying that if he did I would not leap to the alarmist conclusion that he cannot read, because as a parent I read with him a lot and I know perfectly well that he can! So if he did fail the test I would conclude that perhaps the teaching of phonics in his class had not been particularly effective, which would be something for the school to address, or that he has not been paying attention in phonics teaching time! I wouldn't take it as an indicator of literacy.

Biscuitsneeded the phonics check is used for assessment, so you wouldn't expect 'the learning to advance'.

However, when actually teaching phonics, the learning will be advanced through using nonsense words- because the teacher will be teaching/reinforcing new ways of representing sounds in writing.

Biscuitsneeded the phonics check is used for assessment, so you wouldn't expect 'the learning to advance'.

However, when actually teaching phonics, the learning will be advanced through using nonsense words- because the teacher will be teaching/reinforcing new ways of representing sounds in writing.

We want children and adults to be able to read any word they meet learnandsay

If a child fails the phonics check, I hope that both parents and teacher will take it to mean that they don't have sufficient understanding of phonics to tackle new words confidently.

Pozzled I can understand why you say this, however as discussed on a previous thread I do not think the assessment is completely flawless (no assessment is).

I believe it should be used as just one piece of information that informs about a child's decoding ability, in fact in an ideal word it would not be needed as the teacher would already be assessing frequently.

I can see how in schools if a child is not familiar with the testing type scenario, they may not ever even read to the teacher doing the assessment (only TAs hear readers or only guided reading in groups is done in school). This could cause problems...

However I appreciate there are many pulls upon a teacher's time and many ways to manage this.

I just think it would be more useful if the words were real, since we want children to learn to read real words not made up ones.

[sigh] The check is to verify that children have the phonics knowledge and skills which they should have been taught by this stage in Y1. The knowledge and skills to enable them to read any words which they encounter; which may, or may not, be 'real words' (e.g.nonsense rhymes?)

This obsession with 'real words' for 6y olds is a bit pointless. It's been said often enough before, a child will only 'know' if a word is 'real' if it is in its expressive or receptive vocabulary. Which is by no means complete at age 6. Anyone who lets a child believe that it knows all the real words there are in the language at age 6 is doing the child a big disservice IMO.

By the same token the driving lessons could include instructions for piloting the space shuttle. It's not very likely that you will come across the controls of the space shuttle, but if you do you'll know how to use them.

"only TAs hear readers" That isn't true in all schools daftdame, it certainly isn't in mine (and we don't do guided reading in any year group).

mrz - pleased to hear it. Sadly not my child's experience...

^To be fair, I should probably clarify to 'hear readers individually'.