Phonics Test Year 1 Query

[NigellaEllaElla]

DS is doing the "Test" next week. I did a few flash card words with him last night and just have a query.

He sounds out the word but if it has a "y" at the end he sounds it as "yu" as in the letter name, not sound. (Not sure yu is best way of explaining it but can't think of alternative) rather than "ee" but then still says the word correctly.

So for "Happy" he might say "H a p p yu - Happy"

Because he is saying "yu" not "ee" when sounding will this count as a fail even though he knows the word correctly?

Bloody stupid test. He's a really good reader for his age, possibly a little too good cause I don't think it will do him any favours in a test like this!

Thanks in advance for your help.

[IsabelleRinging]

Exactly mrz, even those of us who were taught in the 70s using Peter and Jane books use phonics. Children often learn things in a 'top down' way and work out the code for themselves. It doesn't mean they are not using phonics. Look and say works for lots of children as a basic introduction to reading, and most will work out the phonetic code themselves. However, teaching phonics first works even better for most. Nobody can read without phonics though.

[mrz]

"Surely someone who had been taught by Look and Say but become a good reader (by which I mean able to tackle words they have not seen before adequately) has intuited the rules of phonics themselves anyway?"

exactly! or they would have to ask someone every time they encountered a new word then learn it by sight which is clearly not what happens.

[learnandsay]

I think that's precisely the question, although I'm not sure how many mumsnetters are going to admit that they failed the mumsnet phonics screening test. Maybe we should print it out and spring it on people in pubs, parks and doctors' waiting rooms.

[HarumScarum]

Thanks, I did wonder how easy it would be for a sight reader to pass.

Surely someone who had been taught by Look and Say but become a good reader (by which I mean able to tackle words they have not seen before adequately) has intuited the rules of phonics themselves anyway? This is me. I would have no trouble with the alien words at all, nor would I have found it hard at six because I was fortunate enough to find it easy to work out what the rules were. If you have been taught by Look and Say but have not become a good reader, as defined above, then of course you would fail. And you would fail because you can't read. Someone who can recognise some words, even quite a lot of them, can't read any more than I can say I speak German if I only know a hundred words in German. Neither level of knowledge is fit for purpose.

[meditrina]

"Thanks, I did wonder how easy it would be for a sight reader to pass."

I don't think a sight reader could pass, as none of the novel words would have been seen before, so they cannot have learned them.

[learnandsay]

The YMN phonics screening check.

[Hulababy]

There are many sample screening checks online for anyone wanting to have a go.

[ClayDavis]

I've seen many posters on MN say they are visual learners and read by sight not phonics. It might not be worthwhile but I'd be interested to see how many of them 'passed' the screening check. I suspect most of them would have no trouble with the pseudowords.

[mrz]

wigglywoowoo it is a phonics screening check - purpose to check if a child can use phonics to decode words they have not previously met. A child who can only read words they have learnt as whole words will struggle to reach the expected level

If you were 6 and a sight reader then if might be a worthwhile experiment but you aren't learnandsay

[learnandsay]

Give me the test and I'll tell you.

[wigglywoowoo]

Thanks, I did wonder how easy it would be for a sight reader to pass.

[mrz]

the "pass mark" was 32 this year too

[Hersetta]

My DD did her test yesterday and passed withflying colours. The school did send home a sheet of Alien words for her to read with us over the weekend and as she sounded them all correctly I was hopeful she'd do OK. We were also asked to look ound for diagraphs over the weekend so did some work with her using ou, oi, ar, ea sounds.
Have to admit I am a little pround of her as she is a 31/8 birthday and sruggled for the first half of the year but something clicked about 3 months ago and she has come on really well.

[Pozzled]

Posted too soon... If a child can only sound out a few of the alien words, that would indicate that they had difficulty with phonics, so that's exactly what the check is designed to pick up.

[Pozzled]

Yes, HarumScarum is correct. Children can just read the word without sounding it out. I think last year the pass mark was 32, so a child would have needed at least 12 alien words correct.

[HarumScarum]

I think they can just read it. They're allowed to sound the word out if it helps them. The only thing that matters is if they read the word in a phonetically plausible way. I think half the words are alien words so no, you couldn't pass it if you could only read the 'real' words.

[wigglywoowoo]

I may be a little confused but do the children have to say the sounds then the word or can they just read it? Also is it possible to pass the phonics check if you can read all the real words but can't sound out the alien ones or only a few of them?

[mintyneb]

I've no idea how she did but my DD had her assessment today. I had a feeling the teacher was doing them so on the way home from school this afternoon asked if she'd had a good day and done anything interesting? Yes, we did some writing. Did she do any reading with her teacher? No, she was busy doing 'jobs'.

Over dinner dd was chatting about something else to do with school and then said 'I had to do some obb and bob words with my teacher'. And that was it! I asked her a bit more but basically she wasn't bothered by it one way or another.

So, although I don't know how she did I'm pleased the teacher handled it in a lovely low key way.

[Hulababy]

Today's class achieved 80% iirr. 6 didn't reach the required level, but no surprises again today.
Have a third class tomorrow, then about 30 Y2s who did not achieve the required level from last year to do theirs on Thursday.

[mrz]

How come we don't need a scientific approach to learn how to speak? well some children do - that's the job of speech therapists and speech pathologists but in general speech is a natural process written language is artificial

[IsabelleRinging]

The year ones at our school did really well today, including one boy who finds it tricky and works with me for extra input. Only two children out of the 30 didn't score enough to pass and they were only a few words away from passing so they did well, but school has a very systematic approach to teaching phonics which works well.

[Hulababy]

First class at my school did this year's screening today. Very positive results so far. 84% pass rate from today's class which included a number of children with learning delays/difficulties.

[mrz]

People didn't make words by consciously combining phonemes/graphemes

Just the opposite pickled they assigned "symbols" (letters or combinations of letters) to represent the sounds in spoken words. The spoken word came first then the written.

[pickledsiblings]

daftdame, I don't know very much about it either but I am curious too

[daftdame]

pickled Interesting, I think in Hebrew letters do have individual meaning as well as the words...I don't know enough about this and you have set me thinking....