DD not keen on our chosen primary. Would you listen to her worries?

[stickygotstuck]

To cut a long story short - We got our 2nd choice (largish school B, 220 kids) in April and we were happy with that. But now a place has become available in our first choice school (tiny school A, 75 kids), and that one has been given to us automatically, so DD no longer has a place at school B.

As it happens, we now prefer school B and have found out that there are a couple of places left. Great, we thought, and we are planning to apply for one. But DD (4.5 yo) now says she does not want to go to school B because 'there are new children there and I will be scared', and 'Nursery friend (only sees her at nursery) is going there'. Not one child from her nursery will go to school B, whereas there will be children she knows in school A. She knows this, as kids have been excited in nursery talking about the schools they are going to.

Would you send her to school A, based solely on her feelings about it?

For background, we put in our application feeling really torn between two very different, good schools. Originally, we went for school A because it's smaller. DD has always been a cautious little girl and can find large groups intimidating. She is still not one for noise and crowds, but she has grown up a lot since the original application and copes much better with large groups now, and we feel she would cope with with school B.

School B is larger, has better facilities and, crucially for me, is 5 minutes' walk from home (school A is 7 minutes' drive away). We now feel that a larger place would be best long-term as in a tiny school she may be a bit too cosseted (then again, maybe that's what she needs??) Also important: 1. DD has no siblings so the more the merrier, maybe
2. School B is also a bit more 'rough' (relatively) and that is a niggle.

So what would you do?

Decide based solely on her feelings, no, but there are so many other factors you're juggling. I generally favour bigger schools, too. Any anxieties she has listed about school B will be forgotten by week 3, so I don't think they are strong reasons in themselves.

Your DD's worries are the very natural concerns that many 4 year old's have about starting school. Of course you should listen to them, and try to reassure her, but don't make a school choice based on them!

I would go with your choice rather than hers on the basis that a larger school is more likely to have a similar child to her.
I'd be worried about the smaller pool of friends at a small school (75 children so 10 kids per year) as well as a gender imbalance (my kids would have hated being the only girl/boy in their year or having to partner with the only other boy/girl in the year)

I didn't discuss school choice with my 4 year old at all and certainly didn't involve her in the decision! dh and I decided - and it was a very tough decision to make - and that was that.
She sounds like a typical 4 year old and will be apprehensive whichever school you chose. I would stop discussing it with her and then closer to the time big up the school you chose and get her all excited, eg, she can help buy her uniform etc.

I think I would actually. I would want her to be happy and it sounds like school A is a good fit for her.

Out of interest how is school B thought of because in our area only the really poor schools still have places at this stage.

I would go with school B. Your DD maybe needs to be at a bigger school to help her confidence as she grows.

My DS1 was the same when younger, and went to a smal school. bIt did cosset him and I don't think it was helpful. He is now at a bigger school. 350 pupils and has a bigger choice of friends etc. and it has really helped him be more confident.

I think the fact that School B is so local is a very strong 'plus' and it may help her socially to have schoolmates right on her doorstep. I have an only child, and the fact that he went to the local primary 5 mins away meant that all his friends were close by, we always saw them as we walked to and from school, and once he was old enough (it happens so fast!) he was able to nip up the road to a friends house - you also see other parents on the school run and chat as you go. That doesn't happen when driving in!

Can you find a way for her to get to know another child who will go to school B before she starts?

220 is still a small primary. A tiny primary can sometimes mean that there is no alternative if she doesn't get on with the few girls in her class. This tends to become an issue once they are about 7 onwards.

I would definitely go with school B.

We moved house when ds1 was in year 1 and had the choice between a small 80 village school to a bigger 210 small town school (iyswim!)

We chose the small school because of the cosseting nature of it. I felt guilty that he was leaving his old friends and wanted the nurturing effect!

By Year 3, he had moved to the larger school. It has loads more after school clubs, a proper hall with staging and lights, a big playground and field, amazing school performances - all things the small school was just too tiny to have.

He is now in Year 7, and all I would say to you is look longer term. Imagine your dd as an 11 year old. She will relish the bigger friendship pool, better residentials (maybe), having her friends 5 mins from her door (very important imho) and more likely to have lots of friends with her moving up to secondary.

Her concerns about friends are age appropriate but at 4 years old they make friends sooooo quickly. My dts just started reception in September not knowing anybody but now have lots of friends between them. And like the above poster said, 220 is not actually that big - one class per year group? Lovely.

Surely 220 is about average for a primary school? 30 kids per year, with R, and Y1-6 is 210 kids? A 75 pupil school will therefor be mixed classes, and potentially be more overwhelming when you are in the younger half of the mixed group with bigger and more able kids all around you?

On that basis, I'd go with whichever school YOU think would be best for her academically and pastorally.

Then try to find some kids who will be starting at the same time.

Personally I don't think 4 year olds should be making big decisions like that. We've got third choice school, and are selling it to DS the best we can, like we would have any school we'd got. All his friends are bring split up. he's very keen now, wasn't when we first told him he wasn't going into reception at the school he currently is at nursery for.

Remember your DD will be leaving that primary at 11. What a shock it will be to go from a tiny primary to a large secondary. Bigger primary is much the better choice.

There is so much to be said for being able to walk to school and be near local parks children will play etc.
I agree with most of above- get her excited nearer the time with her big girl uniform etc. She will make friends very quickly and Reception is a gentle start at beginning of the first term.
Also, sounds average one form entry school. My children go to 2 form entry local, 5 minute walk and love it. They can play with other children sometimes at a park on the way home
This school is not popular with certain [snobbidy snob] parents as has diverse community and 'bottom line' SATs results not as good as more 'middle class' dominated schools.
This is a short sighted view as wonderfully inclusive, vibrant and warm.

Good luck whatever your choice.

Hi stickygotstuck

Unless school B is an infant school - than 220 kids = single form primary school (YR - Y6) - so be most urban standards not a very large school. Remember there are now schools with >1000 pupils. And some super schools that go from YR right to A levels.

Questions to ask yourself:

Did DD go to nursery? Where are her friends going to school - school A? or School B?

Did DD visit school A/ B before you decided?

Will DD have settling in at either school be gradual -in which case she'll get used to it.

Which will suit your life better - because remember you are signing up to this for 7 years. Is it going to get annoying driving to the school during school run/ rush hour traffic? Having to go early for clubs/ etc... Would you like the idea of being so near she could literally walk?

Have a think - but in the end we chose the school DH liked and I was so so about and haven't been happy academically. But logistically - getting there, before/ after school care, music opportunities and clubs have been brilliant.

No school is perfect - so try and decide what works best for the majority of things your consider a priority.

On the information you have given us, I would chose school B.

How you break it to DD is another matter, but we have had to deal with two children going to schools they wouldn't have chosen (both at primary and secondary level). Once, we moved DS1 to a nearer school after moving house across town and then DS3 was in a different (secondary school) catchment area to his friends from primary school and had to go to the school alone. It was also a different school to the ones his brothers were at.
Both times it worked out fine in the end of course, but the build up to the move was a bit worrying for them. I think the fact that in both case we knew the schools were excellent schools made it easier for us to decide, but didn't help the DC.

Forgot to say that we have had two senior teaching members of staff advice that it is you, the parent, who has to take the final decision and not to be swayed too much by the DC wishes.

Your experience is so much greater than the largely emotional views of the child and it is you who, as an adult, has to take responsibility for the decision.

75 children over 7 school years? So not even 11 children per year? I would stick with B.

I would go with the school your child feels more inclined to go to. My DS1 was/is a very shy boy and I wish so much that I had put him in the smaller school which is further away rather than the large school. There is nothing wrong with the large school per se but with hindsight it hasn't been ideal for him. If she feels safer going to a school where she knows people I'd let her - we forget they're only little. Why not let her feel safe and be part of what her friends are doing, getting excited with them is so important and will help her to be ready for the thought of big school too.

Thank your for your responses.

Yes, school B is average in size - it's just the larger of the lot around here (semi rural area).

Kerryblue - your schools sound exactly like ours, down to the village/small town/facities/hall, etc. That's what I'm thinking - I'd rather change our minds now that in year 3 or thereabouts. But your DC did adapt easily, didn't he?

FadedSaphire - "This school is not popular with certain [snobbidy snob] parents as has diverse community and 'bottom line' SATs results not as good as more 'middle class' dominated schools".

After much research, I feel this ^ is the reason behind there still being a couple of places left. Although the SATs are not much lower than those of school A. Also, this whole area is not overpopulated, so children being sent to a school which is 'too far' is practically unheard of for the time being.

If I am honest with myself, there is a bit of that snobbery as well in me - at the back of my mind there's that yes, she will bump into kids who live nearby in the walk to school. That's a good thing, but there are a few of them I would not be that keen on DD fraternising with .

I see the majority of you would not consider DC's natural fears a deciding factor.

Many of you make a very good point re. 'selling' the school to DD. I feel I am better placed to sell school B to her than school A, which I am not mad keen on (it's only its smallness that makes it feel like a safer environment, but that's in the very short term).

So in all likelihood, now comes the messing about trying to do in-year transfers and pissing people off who may be in the waiting list for school A while we dithered. I do feel terrible about that, but it can't be helped.

Hi Sticky,

Yes, he absolutely adapted easily. Relished the opportunities given to him. It took 2.5 years to get dd into this school as they didn't have a space, but she joined at the beginning of year 3 and is flourishing.

Hi again Sticky,
There are some parents whose language can be a bit rich and some of older children too. I have talked to my ds [7] about not wanting to here language like that from him and as far as I know he does not swear etc. In fact he thinks 'stupid' is beyond the pale.
This is language in parks outside school and have to say not an every day thing to hear. At school if overheard parents and children would be 'for it' by our Head!

You are the adult, you make the major decisions on her behalf because she is too young to make such crucial decisions. If she was deciding which pudding she wanted or what clothes she wanted to wear, that would be different.

My friend and I both have children in tiny small schools (65 and 90) and our nice kids have both struggled - if the kids fall out, friendships can be a major problem.

I think in your case it's best to go with the bigger school on your doorstep. Play dates will be so much easier if everyone is close by. Eventually your 10 year old daughter will have the freedom to walk to her friends houses and so a couple of mins walk is more preferable then a drive. Being an only child, her friends will feel like family.

School B because you can walk to it.

Over time you will be so grateful not to tackle the parking nightmare every day. Also as others have said play dates will be easier which is important for an only child (mine's not an only but nearly is due to large age gap).

It's so nice to just casually walk home and chat with other families, divert via the park if its nice. Your daughter will really benefit from this and probably have more friends in the long run.

DC can only look at the immediate situation but you as the parent are looking long term. My DD went to school knowing no one and she is very shy but within half a term she had a group of friends who he still hangs out with over a year later.

If she'd had a choice she would have wanted to go with her nursery friends too but we live in the wrong catchment so it was never an option. I do recall it was a bit tough for her around this time when they were all talking about their class but it quickly passed. We still see her best friend from nursery for the occasional play date even now so it is possible to hold onto those friends and make new ones.

School B for all the reasons others have said. My DCs go to a similar sized school 5 mins walk from our house and it is brilliant being able to walk in with all the other families, all friends are within walking distance etc. DS (9) walks to and from school without me now (I follow with DD, 7). Also the facilities, activities etc are the envy of parents at nearby much smaller schools.

I went to a 48 pupil village primary for a few years and hated it, cliquey, very limited pool of potential friends, poor facilities (no hall, we had to clear all the furniture every day from my classroom for assembly, eat dinner at our desks so the room smelled of food all afternoon, dinners were brought in instead of cooked on the premises). I was so glad when it closed and I moved to a bigger school.

B She's 4 and you are the ones who have to do the longterm thinking and guide her. Don't let her know there is a choice. Her fears are natural but would come up with any move . I doubt she will know no one at B in the end nor that she will be the only one not part of an existing cohort.

Thank you for all your replies. The support for school B is overwhelming. It's specially interesting to hear greenformica's children and WhoKnows's personal experience of small schools, as those are exactly my concerns.

Wish us luck with the transfer then! Also, I hope that someone can take up the place in the tiny school if we give it up this late in the day .