Should school have contacted DS's sports coach about an incident that took place at school?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS aged 8 got into a fight at school. It was over with in a few mins, the boys made up and they missed a playtime and had to write about the incident at lunchtime. I thought it had all been dealt with and supported the school by talking to DS about making the right choices, etc, etc.

A week later the boys went to judo and were called over by the coach who talked to them about their behaviour as one of them had mentioned a judo throw had been used when they were fighting.

It turns out that without asking permission from parents the school had contacted the judo coach to ask him to 'tell them off'. The school have a relationship with the coach because he'd run an after school club there in the past so he'd been put in a difficult position.

1. Can the school contact an outside body without a parents permission? (Excluding child protection)

1. Can the school 'sub-contract' discipline?

1. Have the school over reacted?

1. AIBU to be really cross?!

Any comments gratefully received as I'm a bit open mouthed about it all.

It goes for all professionals in the school and if parents were there as volunteers.

If I was reporting the fight to the OP as a teacher I should not tell her the name of the other child or discuss their involvement even though her son will obviously fill in these details.

I am confused about the comments about 'data', its not about that, I would not expect my sons behaviour to be discussed outside if school, its still confidential IMO.

I have been involved in an early years setting and we would never have talked about any of our children's behaviour to anyone other than parents. That is normal as far as I'm aware.

I don't think the OP is questioning the fact that her son was in the wrong,and deserved the punishment from the school and the talking to from the judo club,so she has no need to be embarrassed by or for her son. Parents are constantly being advised on mn to leave the school to deal with different issues concerning dcs, and i totally agree, approaching other parents or bringing in a third party is the worst thing to do,but surely the schools should give students that same respect, 'What happens in School stays in School'.

When we signed my son up for a martial art we signed a form about contact with the school. For each award he has to get a "good report" form signed by his class teacher at school and the school are told that any use of the moves at school should be reported to the tutor and may result in expulsion from the club.

They insist martial arts is about discipline & self control, and using it in anger is not showing that. Not sure how that all fits in with data protection, but I'm happy that all his classmates are aware they can't use it out of the club or there will be consequences.

oh DP also said he would talk to the parents but if they said they did not want in mentioned to the coach, he would not go with their wishes.

there are two issues (1) the boy using the judo move (2) the safety of everyone in the school

(2) is way more important than the parents' embarrassment/their wishes.

he works in schools where teachers are trained in restraining children within the law. frequently teachers get minor injuries (scratches, bites, kicks, punches) during getting the child into the correct position.

The school are breaching confidentiality technically, but really you are SO precious!

this incident was witnessed by other pupils and teachers so it was in the public domain - therefore how could it be breaching confidentiality - it was not a confidential incident.

Not true

most incidents at school would be in front of other people so thats rubbish about its not confidential.

No where has the OP said it was ok what her son had done and she has said she has punished him as did the school.

I get its not a massive deal and there are worse breaches of confidentiality but I think the OP has had a really harsh time. She was only asking for opinions.

I do think there could have been a better way to deal with it but at least they were trying I suppose - I can see that it seems as if they can't win but the school should know they should have spoken to the parents first.

but it isn't confidential - if two boys have a fight then other pupils will see - they can go home and tell their parents other friends etc. So it is not a confidential matter in the first place.

If it was confidential then it would be secret - this incident wasn't secret and my dd could have come home and told me all about the fight and what happened, who was involved and which teachers stopped the fight etc. I am not bound to keep that information secret and can tell who I like as it is not a confidential matter

no confidentiality does not mean its a secret, the teachers are professionals so it applies to them, the random people who see and hear about it are not so it doesn't!

If two boys have a fight in school as a teacher I am only allowed to inform each set of parents about their child not about the other child (even though it is obvious they will get these details from their child). I certainly can't tell a third party about it!

If something is confidential then you don't have random people talking about it, they very fact it is in the public domain and random people can talk about it means it was not a confidential incident

and yes confidential is secret dictionary.reference.com/browse/confidential

oh ffs, I don't care about protocols & policies & principles. The Judo coach was probably horrified to find out the boys had used that maneuver and was brought on side to help discourage a repeat.

the teacher was not gossiping to the judo teacher, (s)he was looking out for all the children's welfare, which is their job.

its a very jobsworth approach to harp on about confidentiality when not telling the judo instructor could result in harm to a child.

what is the harm in telling them?

I suppose op you are correct that school cannot tell a 3rd party.

However, the 3rd party was not a random person, it was someone with ties to the school and who is presumably crb checked etc. furthermore, the 3rd party was someone who had taught your ds not to use judo moves outside of class and this is exactly what your ds did. They may be able to actually justify the fact they told this 3rd party due to the relationship with him.

They weren't outsourcing discipline, they were informing the coach that his rules had been broken so he could act accordingly.

The school have not overreacted and yabvu to be cross. Your attitude stinks, you should be grateful that people responsible for your son's safety and behaviour have communicated relevant information. I have a son a similar age who did something very silly at a coaching session (different sport) and he received an almighty shrieking bollocking from the coach. I was grateful for this. Ds will not do this again and will think about other actions more carefully in future. The coach likes ds and is kind to him. The bollocking was a kindness IMO. (I watch so I am not taking anyone else's account of this)

A teacher is not allowed to discuss incidents in school with a third party regardless of whether it is the child's sports coach or another parent.

Schools / Teachers cannot discuss a child's behavior, abilities, levels etc, with anyone but the child's parent or carer.So how can it be ok to ring an outside group about a named child ?.
I think the op is concerned about the fact that the children were discussed as individuals,the whole issue could have been handled without naming children.

but its really not a big deal is it? I mean should anyone be disciplined because of it?

someone could lose their job because they disclosed inappropriately

I'm with mrz here

well I hope their union would fight it for them because that is the highest order of jobsworth.

schools have real problems. children being abused etc.. this is not one of them. HTH

They wouldn't

well the good news is there are HT like my DP who really does not think it is a big deal and was not even convinced he needed the parents permission.

because its about children not being injured. but I am repeating myself...