Should school have contacted DS's sports coach about an incident that took place at school?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS aged 8 got into a fight at school. It was over with in a few mins, the boys made up and they missed a playtime and had to write about the incident at lunchtime. I thought it had all been dealt with and supported the school by talking to DS about making the right choices, etc, etc.

A week later the boys went to judo and were called over by the coach who talked to them about their behaviour as one of them had mentioned a judo throw had been used when they were fighting.

It turns out that without asking permission from parents the school had contacted the judo coach to ask him to 'tell them off'. The school have a relationship with the coach because he'd run an after school club there in the past so he'd been put in a difficult position.

1. Can the school contact an outside body without a parents permission? (Excluding child protection)

1. Can the school 'sub-contract' discipline?

1. Have the school over reacted?

1. AIBU to be really cross?!

Any comments gratefully received as I'm a bit open mouthed about it all.

Is it appropriate for a judo coach to be told that some of his pupils have been using their skills inappropriately? Yes! This is the 'it takes a village' approach to discipline - getting a trusted person to reinforce the message - and the parent is moaning about breach of confidentiality. Why should there be some kind of ban on even mentioning that he got into a fight? It's not as if he's being put in the stocks for it! Sorry but OP you are coming across as someone who thinks their pfb has been misunderstood and shouldn't be upset by nasty people telling them off when they have done wrong - justifying that by talking about 'rights' and confidentiality is just a smokescreen.

A) I think it is fine for the school to contact the judo club and say "we have issues with children using judo moves during fights, please can you reinforce the message to all children that there is a right time and place to use judo skills".

B) I don't think it is OK for school to contact the judo club and say "Little Johnny battered little Freddie, please punish little Johnny".

As the OP doesn't say that her child was singled out by the coach, I'm going to assume that the situation is closer to A than B and this is all a storm in a teacup.

Sounds more to me like B than A given OP says

"A week later the boys went to judo and were called over by the coach who talked to them about their behaviour as one of them ..." and asked "him to 'tell them off'".

If judo club was in a different town, would they ring up all the judo clubs in the area to ask if the boys went there? Surely none of you would approve of that!

"that's the letter of the law, but I think it was put together for more serious"... so breaking a law is now based on personal judgement?

Not knowing a law exists is no defence, but knowing a law exists and thinking you know better is even worse! (Not that the OP has hinted at taking this further, just asked whether the school was allowed to do so.)

the coach did not single out the boy who did the throw - it was the boys in the fight.

surely this is putting the safety of the children first, which overrides data protection?

I think the school have probably over-stepped the mark, but if it were my DC i would really not be furious in the circs that they had done this.

It would definitely send the wrong message to the child if the parent did show him that she was cross with the school and/or the coach over this.

School breached confidentiality. This gpes against CP guidance. No excuse, whatever the good intentions or bad behaviour. Judo teacher is not school staff, this is not a school club. Confidentiality rules are black and white - simple as that - they are not there so all can pick and choose whether they deem what's ok to discuss - otherwise where would we be?
I would not be happy.

I agree with piprabbit. Her example (A) would be fine but (B) would not. If OP is talking about situation (B) I think she should discuss confidentiality with the Head.

Oh my word, this is not a child protection issue. This is what I mean about a sense of proportion. "Breaking a law" etc?? I give up.

I think the school did the wrong thing for the right reasons. Their intentions were good but it doesn't alter the fact that they should not have been talking about identifiable children with a third party. The fact that the boys were called over, rather than the whole group being addressed, means that the school said enough for the coach to identify them.

Yes, Network

Perhaps teachers react differently to this than non teachers. In my day parents had no say. It is right they have a say now at most schools,

Have any of you ever talked to Toby Young..........hmmm

Perhaps the school shouldn't have contacted a 3rd party in theory, but in this case it made perfect sense and demonstrated a very holistic approach to the incident. I wish the school my DC attend cared this much to be honest.

Why didn't you tell the instructor that your son had done something so dangerous?

Teachers just cannot win can they?? This is a completely appropriate thing to do and I would have been impressed that someone actually cared enough about my child/ren to take time out to do this simple and effective thing to reinforce what is right and wrong.

polkadotsrock I'm afraid as a teacher I disagree it is a totally inappropriate thing for them to discuss a child with anyone other than the parents and it should have been left up to the OP to inform or discuss the incident with the coach if they felt this was necessary.

I would be a bit annoyed if the school discussed my child's discipline issues with someone outside of the school without talking to me first. They should have told you and requested it was reiterated to the children that they were not allowed to use throws outside of judo.

My DCs do martial arts and this is something the instructor discusses with them regularly so they should know better.

I wouldn't be mega angry or anything but I am quite capable of discplining my children so would not need the school to go behind my back.

I think Pip has got it right - the school could have taken approach A without mentioning any names.

Sorry - didn't read your whole post - the OP said they were singled out but approach A would have been the best approach I think.

The school shouldn't have gone about things in this way - but the idea behind this was spot-on.

I did martial arts for several years. If something like this had come to light, the whole class would have been lectured by one of the instructors, not just the offenders, and would probably have been doing an hour's worth of fairly brutal press-up/shuttle-run combos.

Discipline and respect are at the very heart of most martial arts and any child practicing should be made completely aware of the expectations of the sport and the rules, both in and out of the dojo.

In our club, the adults were expected to take an active role in encouraging respect for self and others. If the kids were behaving badly in the changing rooms, we were expected to speak to them or find an instructor to do so. If we saw bad behaviour outside the club, we flagged it up. Martial arts are about a way of conducting yourself, not just about getting the moves right.

I would support the club in reinforcing this discipline, no matter what your issue with the school.

If asked my DP who is a HT and he said:

(1) the school should probably have talked to the parents first but its not really a big deal
(2) its not data so covered by the DPA
(3) he would see the OP as embarrassed by her son so choosing to blame some adults

and the main thing is, its not the school spreading gossip about a child, its the school looking out for the welfare of all children in the school.

parents are welcome to move their DCs to another school.

'he would see the OP as embarrassed by her son so choosing to blame some adults'

God, how true is that.

What bit of the fight at school was confidential data? The school probably should have informed you out of courtesy that they were going to speak to the judo teacher, but they don't need your permission to say this group of boys have been having a judo fight in the corridor/playground.

Anything that happens inside the school concerning individual children is confidential dogrosie and should not be reported to a third party

This is curious - does that just go for professionals, or mums and kids that might have seen the fight too?