Should school have contacted DS's sports coach about an incident that took place at school?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS aged 8 got into a fight at school. It was over with in a few mins, the boys made up and they missed a playtime and had to write about the incident at lunchtime. I thought it had all been dealt with and supported the school by talking to DS about making the right choices, etc, etc.

A week later the boys went to judo and were called over by the coach who talked to them about their behaviour as one of them had mentioned a judo throw had been used when they were fighting.

It turns out that without asking permission from parents the school had contacted the judo coach to ask him to 'tell them off'. The school have a relationship with the coach because he'd run an after school club there in the past so he'd been put in a difficult position.

1. Can the school contact an outside body without a parents permission? (Excluding child protection)

1. Can the school 'sub-contract' discipline?

1. Have the school over reacted?

1. AIBU to be really cross?!

Any comments gratefully received as I'm a bit open mouthed about it all.

right breaching confidentiality when I don't even know which child he is talking about?

you are very jobsworth. what do you do for a living?

Jobsworth

I feel rules for the protection of children are in place very good reasons.

My job? I'm a mother.

Out of interest where you going to tell the Judo coach?

leonard - I don't think you understand the law regarding CP.

Are you saying it was necessary to breach confidentiality in the interests of child protection here? I don't think so. I understand fully well there are cases where outside agencies are contacted regarding pupils but surely it was not the case here.

Reading the policy of DS's school, which is on their website for all to see, their rules are quite clear. IRO staff, volunteer, helpers and work-experience - whatever happens in school is confidential and should only be discussed with relevant people eg parents of child involved, other relevant staff etc. This was not the case here.

Of course due to its very nature the pupils themselves are not bound by this confidentiality and are free to discuss all they see/hear. Adults. Not so.

So like I said - I am surprised you think it's supporting your case by making it clear that not only does your dp come home and discuss school business with you, but that you then break this confidence further by coming on here and talking freely about these matters on here!

I think the children of the parents you and your husband describe as PITA deserve as much time and effort as any other child ...

I don't think you understand the law either FS

Leonard has got it spot on, in the setting I looked after it was reiterated time and time again that any information you learn or incidents witnessed due to you being part of the setting are bound by the confidentiality agreements signed, this is for both staff and volunteers.

If for instance a child is physically abused at home and their siblings or neighbours children know about it, doesn't mean that staff at school can discuss it if they learn of it at work just because other people know about it at the school.

I think the children of the parents you and your husband describe as PITA deserve as much time and effort as any other child ...

yes of course they do and more besides - however the school cannot make their lives ok or make their parents act like parents.

most people sign a confidentiality contract at work. & most people talk about what they do at work. its the consequences of what you are saying and any response being proportionate.

which I would have thought most professional people would understand.

no school can not make parents act like parents but they can ensure that the children are nurtured and supported in school and not chased away because their parents are a problem

IME there are many people who do not entirely understand! The smaller things most definitely do not need to be discussed outside of school, the bigger things may need to be depending on the situation but there are protocols and procedures to be followed.

In the scheme of things, the OPs situation was a minor incident and did not need to go any further than the parents if was a 1st and one off incident. Most professional people should understand that.

mrz - so how many children and staff are you responsible for?

'most people talk about what they do at work' - depends on the nature of the work surely.

I was a civil servant - did I go home and blab about our clents? No
I help in a school - do I go home and blab about what I've seen/heard? No
I sold refreshments at a tourist spot - I considered it ok to discuss ice creams and crisps when I got home.

which I would have thought most professional people would understand.

why FS are you going down the my husband's school is bigger than yours type argument?

Surely issues of confidentiality only matter if you name the person you are talking about.

So as a journalist I would write about 'confidential incidents' such as a sexual offence and if I make sure the victim is not identifiable, I can publish.

So on an internet forum, so long as the person concerned is not identifiable, there is no issue of confidentiality.

In terms of what the school did - it's good practice, I think, to keep the judo instructor informed.

I know of someone who went home and discussed a incident at a school setting she worked at with her DH, her teenage DD was also there.

The teenage DD went and teased the person involved's DD (who was in her class) about it the next day. The person who had discussed it at home was suspended.

It wasn't even that awful an incident but was a breach of confidentiality end of!

ubik - but they specifically mentioned the names of the children to the judo instructor!

Surely issues of confidentiality only matter if you name the person you are talking about. isn't that the issue here? The school have contacted a third party and identified two pupils ...

I think in law there's always room for manoeuvre - the school's intentions were honourable - it may be there has been a spate of problems with boys using these 'moves' in the playground and that the judo instructor has been informed to help stop it, it may be that the school decided to work with judo instructor to put a stop to it.

This wasn't idle gossip, the school had an honourable purpose in disclosing this information. I think hopping up and down about something so trivial, where the teacher obviously had the child's interests at heart, is an over reaction. It's not the same as abuse/neglect etc which are possible criminal matters and must be treated with strict adherence to policies and processes in place.

In terms of the 'sexual offence' example I gave - that was because someone on here was getting a hard time because she had used a real life example of an event. The chances of any persons concerned being identified are minimal.

under the law good intentions are no defence

Just curious, what is the actual law that covers this?

No, but I think lawyers/judges expect some common sense to used when applying the law.

And the law, I think, is the Data Protection Act - which nobody understands (including me!) and which can then be used to strike fear into the hearts of rational adults trying to do their jobs.

There are a number of laws regarding the sharing of information

webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/Info-Sharing_legal-issues.pdf

No ubik it is not the Data Protection Act

I'm from an IT background and I thought the DPA only applied to information held digitally or on paper. So I presumed this situation must have been covered by some other legislation (Child Protection perhaps?).