So... Welsh. Why?

[gaelicsheep]

This is a thread to pick up a discussion that began on another thread about Welsh medium education. It isn't about Welsh medium. It's about compulsory Welsh to 16 in all other schools. It is hard as a non Welsh person to complain about this without sounding xenophobic so I am merely opening the floor if anyone is interested.

Interestingly Gwynedd Council will be hosting a national conference on the future of welsh speaking communities later on this month.

Can I add my two pennies worth?

My family are from N. Wales. I lived there until I went to college in 1991. I went to a bilingual school, however back then it was truely bilingual. We had 'English speaking' streams and 'Welsh speaking' streams. The language we spoke at home was English. However, by the true nature of the school all the English speakers were great Welsh learners and we all crossed over. Generally it was great, worked really well.

However, as much as I love Wales and my family I could never go back now. Since I left the true bilingual nature of our school as changed to ^everything being taught through the medium of Welsh. I know this as some of my old school friends still live there and there children are currently going through GCSE's and A levels. My friend dd's just got great grades at GCSE despite this. She had to go to Chemistry and learn all the stuff in Welsh (welsh periodic tables etc), translate it^ into English in her head to work it all out then translate it all back into Welsh. I hear examples like this all the time.

I love Wales and the welsh language - I can still speak pretty well. However, as we speak English at home I couldn't put my kids through all that. I would want them to learn it as a language but complete teaching through Welsh only wouldn't not make me comfortable.

I know parents that have moved over the border. Not because they don't want their children to ^learn^ Welsh, but because if the aggressive welsh language enforcement. I do believe this is only prevalent in Gwynedd though

I'm sorry you're not feeling happy OP. I live in England now and if its any consolation it's taken me 6 years to feel kind of happy where I am xxx

Eira eira eira!!!!! Ahhhhh.....its so beautiful here in the mountains of Snowdonia. Snow blizzards today. Here in the North of Wales, near Caernarfon the everyday spoken language is Welsh not English and the majority of people who live here are Welsh therefore when they go to school of course it is all done in Welsh. The shops converse in Welsh, hospitals converse in Welsh, BBC here is Welsh, Welsh TV; etc.....and they have been speaking like this here for ever apart from when the Welsh Knot existed when the Welsh were not allowed to speak their language and were punished for doing so. The thing is if you dont like it then dont move here. Come for a holiday by all means but just dont live here.

On Welsh

"For many people, it's their first language, actually"

Erm....nope......

Its actually rarer than the gaelsprach communities in ireland. The main effect of welsh is that now the welsh governement can insist that anyone in public office has to speak it. This has meant that most welsh teenagers cant get council jobs and leave wales. Which has caused the welsh countryside to depopulate further......infact....economically its been a massive own goal. Teaching its as valid as any language.....the IMPOSITION of it is a very different thing.

mungotracy actually from Mid Wales right up the coast to the tip of Anglesey, Welsh IS the first language. Only English populated areas where it has tappered off a bit. Its not rare at all. And we are Welsh so why would we not speak it. Its natural to us.

Given where we live and what she wants to do, I'd love DD to be able to consider a Welsh university, but this nonsense makes me doubt the wisdom of her doing so.

She might enjoy the course, but having no Welsh, staying in Wales to work afterwards would be difficult. She's dyslexic and utterly useless at learning languages, so she's not going to learn it.

Oh and can we get one thing straight Welsh is not spoken in MID Wales.

Montgomeryshire Yes, but any sane person knows they are in the North really.

Radnorshire is the very centre and they have no tradition of speaking Welsh what so ever.

And before you say, but surely they are all in Powys. Yes Powys was invented when I was a little girl, it's a stupidly big, administrative area that causes all kinds of chaos.

Welsh is definately spoken in mid Wales.

Startail if your daughter wants to go to a welsh uni then Glyndwr Uni is in Wrexham. You don't need to speak any welsh to go there. I go there, we have always lived on the border in England ( shropshire ) and have moved just 5 miles into Wales. No difference in education really either apart from in the schools in Wales, welsh is put in the curriculum, but really it's not properly taught to the children at primary level ( training to be a teacher ), just as when children are taught French, they don't get to a level where they can have proper conversations. My son will be going to a school in Wales and learn welsh, I don't think he will use it in the future, as not enough people speak it to keep it alive where we live. Which I guess is just the way it is.

Startail Powys was not invented when you were a little girl, Powys has been around since the middle ages. My husbands ancestor King Hywel Dda ruled Gwynedd and most of Wales including the Kindgdom of Powys and this was about the mid 900.

mumbo what utter nonsense. The Gaeltacht areas of Ireland are so rare they actually put them in road signposts.

When I first got together with my now-DH (English) I took him to visit the Black Mountain and we stopped for petrol in Llandeilo. He came back from paying completely nonplussed because the three people in the queue before him had conducted their transactions with the cashier in Welsh. He said he'd never realised .

I've never heard that in Ireland.

The equivalent in Irish, obv. Not Welsh.

Dyfed is Mid Wales too, they certainly spoke Welsh there when I was at university, 20 odd years ago.

Someone on another thread referred to East Wales, which reminded me that there is an old Welsh joke that East Wales is England.

Do many Welsh-speaking people learn to drive? If it is their first language, why do they not opt to take their driving theory test in Welsh? (only 112 tests conducted with Welsh on-screen in 2009-10) Seeing this opportunity exists in all Welsh test centres, why do so few Welsh people avail themselves of it?

No idea and I don't understand why you're asking in that challenging way . I imagine it's because Welsh is mainly a home rather than an official language and the practice material is mainly in English. Welsh speakers are bilingual, you know.

Because the theory text books are in English. So if we learn it in English it is easier to take it in English.

Seriously though, whats your problem with the Welsh Cecilyp. Why are you looking for things to have a go at us for. We speak Welsh....get over it.

It really amazes the level of hostility people still have towards the native languages of the UK that aren't English.

It's because they're TAXPAYERS you know! And as TAXPAYERS they ought to be able to slag off whatever they like because they are SUBSIDISING IT.

OP, that's not directed at you btw. I think you're having a bit of culture shock and directing it at the country. I have done the same when I've moved to different places.

Charming! I don't have any problem whatsoever with the Welsh. It was rather in response to your post above, Dottie, that the Welsh do just about everything in Welsh and I thought that well, there is one thing that they definitely don't. But I have had another look and realise you were writing more about conversation, rather than anything else. I do understand that if all the practice materials are in English, then it is probably easier to take it in English. I guess I am wondering because it must have cost the Driving Standards Agency a considerable amount of money to make this available, (it is only available in English or Welsh on screen - no other languages that are commonly spoken by immigrant groups) and it seems a shame and rather a waste if so few people use it.

Well apologies for sounding chippy, but I honestly thought your post seemed confrontational. You see so many things like this, not only on MN. I remember a Welsh language debate in which people ended up frothing about subsidising Welsh health care, hospital parking, tuition fees, S4C etc and when I tried putting across the alternative point of view someone barked at me "Ariel I assume you speak FLUENT WELSH? WELL DO YOU??????" etc etc. I said no I didn't as I'd been brought up with English as my first language, as had most of my friends in SE Wales and my adversary seemed delighted by this fact, as though I personally had proved every point she had been trying to make.

Apologies if I misunderstood you.

CecilP Well maybe my response was because of the way you started your post "Do many Welsh speaking people learn to drive? It was a bit sarcastic. No Welsh is not just conversation, we have alot of Welsh written books and textbooks and all Welsh speakers and and do write in Welsh as well as English. Unfortunately as far as I know there is no driving theory book in Welsh at the present time hence why we choose to do it in English.

And I imagine that providing languages for all "immigrant groups" would indeed be impractical, whereas the UK, like many European countries e.g. the Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg has more than one native language, and they give them equal status.

And to be fair, alot of the posts on here are very confrontational and it would seem that people just dont for some reason like the fact that people speak Welsh. Its the same as when we get the holidaymakers who complain and have a go at us for speaking Welsh around them. They imply that we are only speaking Welsh so they cant understand us. Honestly, it makes me laugh. We speak Welsh because that is the norm for us. We can and do speak fluent English too and alot of us speak French, German, Chinese etc.