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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

How do you argue with a Head?

125 replies

RationalBrain · 09/10/2012 13:44

No, its not a riddle, its a genuine question! In fact the question should be can you even argue with a Head?

In a nutshell, our DD has food allergies, started school lunches under the assurance procedures were robust, they take allergies seriously etc etc. First day, she was given something with her allergen in (thankfully didn't react). Since then we have been seeking more information to confirm it did have the allergen in, which we now have.

So emailed the Head very politely to ask about procedures, not robust enough (not identifying DD as a child who needs a special diet) etc. Head point blank refuses to acknowledge that DD ate the offending item, or that the procedures are in any way deficient. ("there is no way the staff would have served her that" - well, they did!)

So what do I do now? Can I argue with a Head? I'm assuming her word is law, and the reason this school doesn't have any problems with breaches of procedures is that she refuses to accept they have happened. Next time, a child could be hospitalised or worse. Apart from DD's word (which is 100% reliable in this case), I have no proof though.

I am at a loss. And also a bit concerned for DD's future at the school if we get earmarked as 'troublemakers'. (heaven forbid we are concerned that they could have killed her ).

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Takver · 10/10/2012 10:14

Also - voice of bitter experience - I would say that many people (especially older ones) don't 'believe in allergies' / take them seriously until you actually have a full on reaction right in front of them.

flossyfloo · 10/10/2012 10:26

The school nurse would be helpful here. As your DD has severe allergies, the school nurse should already be involved and there should be a care plan in place. Does your DD have one of these?

Also, it may be easier to get the school nurse to deal with the head as they seem to take much more notice of a professional than they do of a parent (even if the parent knows best!).

QuintessentialShadows · 10/10/2012 10:34

Is there any chance that your dd was served a different chocolate crispie cake than the other children, that her cake was dairy free?

Whistlingwaves · 10/10/2012 10:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

RationalBrain · 10/10/2012 11:16

flossyfloo - I don't think they have a school nurse. Its just a primary, ie 3 years x 3 classes, maybe not big enough to have one? I don't know.

Quintessential - no and thrice no yet again. The school don't do the cooking, just heating up etc. It all comes in externally. And besides, the head and the canteen staff would have come back and said if this was at all a possibility, as it would get them out of this hole.

Whistlingwaves that sounds like a very satisfying conversation! I can only dream. But unfortunately it is not an issue that anyone else is going to get up in arms about (as I can tell from the negative responses just on here!). We are 4 weeks into a 4 year relationship with this school (counting dd2 as well), so I don't want to escalate things if I can help it. But good to know there is an option. Argh, why does this have to be so bloody hard.

OP posts:

insanityscratching · 10/10/2012 11:21

The school health service will have a school nurse attached to the school. Just google for your area and and leave a message for them to contact you. You will be hearing from them shortly anyway, as dd is in reception, no doubt.

flossyfloo · 10/10/2012 11:31

Every school has a school nurse attached to it. The receptionist should be able to give you the details. It's only early details if your DD has just started at the school, but the school should have informed the nurse about your DD's allergies to have a care plan completed. This care plan is then usually kept in the staff room with a picture of your DD on it so all staff in the school are aware.

As insanity says, the school nurse carries out health checks in Reception year so will definitely be in touch within the coming months but I would get them involved before then.

Original poster

RationalBrain · 10/10/2012 11:37

Ah flossyfloo - I didn't know that. Will look into that thank you. No care plan has been mentioned to me at all, we've just filled in a couple of forms.

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Original poster

RationalBrain · 10/10/2012 11:38

Sorry, flossyfloo - when you say that the school 'should have informed the nurse' etc, and 'usually kept in the staff room' - you sound like you have direct experience of this. Is there some protocol that all schools are meant to follow, and where can I find this if so, or is what they do in your school? Thanks

OP posts:

flossyfloo · 10/10/2012 11:47

I am a health professional which is how I know a bit more than most.

There will be a protocol of some sort but it can vary between different health boards so you will need to look into that exactly. However, as far as I am aware it is standard for all children with medical conditions that require special treatment or medication to have a care plan. And with allergies, it is very important for all staff to be aware of that child and the specific allergies so the information needs to be kept somewhere visible and easily obtainable.

The school nurse is the best person to talk to about the policies/protocols.

Original poster

RationalBrain · 10/10/2012 12:15

Brilliant - will do. Thank you flossyfloo.

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madwomanintheattic · 10/10/2012 14:51

School nurses are usually absolutely crap and never in the school. In the circumstances I have used them, they have suggested I call the hv. They can be of minimal use in setting up care plans for children's with continence issues etc, but I have honesty never been in contact with any school nurse at all who has been of use. You can usually only speak to them by phone, and they usually are vague and non specific in the extreme, and pass you on to someone else, because to have to deal with an actual health issue in an actual school can't possibly be part of their remit.

The school will have their policy on the website (or in the prospectus) and will have carried out epipen training with the staff. The school nurse may or may not have done it. I'd bet not.

But I'm willing to be surprised. You may well have the only school nurse in Christendom that is any good... Or actually does her job.

flossyfloo · 10/10/2012 17:38

madwoman Sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience of school nurses in the area you live. Not all school nurses are as you describe though, I have met many who do their jobs properly and are very good at their jobs. I guess it's the same with any profession - some are better than others.

rational madwoman is right in saying that the school nurse is very rarely in the school, they are normally based at health centres or clinics, but you should be able to get their phone number and arrange to meet them at the school to discuss your DD's needs.

mrz · 10/10/2012 17:41

Yes RationalBrain it would be ridiculous to make that much fuss if there was no dairy in the chocolate crispies (but it might explain why she didn't have an adverse reaction and why the head is saying she didn't eat any dairy)... schools make a cheap version that doesn't actually contain chocolate

dikkertjedap · 10/10/2012 18:05

Our chocolate crispies don't contain dairy. I expect that most schools use non-dairy/non-egg recipes for many things, due to allergies.

I don't see why you don't give her packed lunch. It is neither here or there whether she chooses it or not, this is about her safety if she is severely allergic.

dikkertjedap · 10/10/2012 18:06

Also, any cakes served at our school don't contain dairy and egg as they are made according to a vegan recipe and thus safe for almost all children.

dikkertjedap · 10/10/2012 18:09

Flossyflo - if it is a state primary then there is unlikely to be a school nurse

titchy · 10/10/2012 18:12

EVERY state school has a school nurse! Not on site of course, but based at a local health centre and serving several schools in the area.

titchy · 10/10/2012 18:14

Oh and our experience was pretty good - they arranged an occupational health visit way before the hospital managed to!

mrz · 10/10/2012 18:16

who visits the school on a handful of occasions over the year.

madwomanintheattic · 10/10/2012 18:54

Flossy - we move every year or two, and between the kids have covered 10 schools so far (not including nursery settings as I have lost count!). I'm sure there are great and valuable school nurses, I've just yet to come across one, and this is with two kids with additional health needs who really ought to be on their agenda somewhere. But no offense intended. We've had many many fabulous health professionals along the way.

redwhiteandblueeyedsusan · 10/10/2012 19:42

unfortunately, there is no legaal requirement for schools to provide allergy free food in school it is best practice but that does not help.

simpson · 10/10/2012 19:56

Well having typed yesterday tht things were going well, there was a bit of a cock up today

Today is the first day since DD has been full time that there is nothing on the menu that she can eat, the catering company is supposed to provide a special meal for her. I told her teacher to call me if there were any problems and of course I got a phone call at 12.30 to say the catering company had forgotten and could I run round with a packed lunch

Original poster

RationalBrain · 11/10/2012 09:22

Oh simpson, that's no good is it. Just lucky for your DD that you are close enough to whizz some food up to the school. Couldn't they have just e.g. beans on toast as a standby (or something else allergen free if those don't work)? What would they do if you worked an hour away and couldn't 'pop' up to the school?

OP posts:

simpson · 11/10/2012 10:06

She is intolerant to something in baked beans (never worked out what, I suspect a food colouring as she is the same with jelly).

Her meal yesterday was supposed to be tuna in a jacket spud.

The problem yesterday is that DD has physio at 1 so I have to pick her up at 12.30. Normally they would courier her another meal (catering company v local) but we did not have time yesterday....

Oh well, at least her option is a roast dinner today, so all should go well!!

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