How much difference would getting a 5 in maths sats make once dd gets to secondary?

[Bustle]

Dd has been offered extra maths lessons at school to help her achieve a 5 in her sats instead of the predicted 4b.

Obviously I appreciate the benefit for the school - but why difference will getting a 5 compared to a 4b make when she goes up to secondary? She doesn't find maths easy, will this make next year easier or will she be repeating work - or I suppose even worse put in a high group that she can't keep up with?

Answers on a postcard please

I would be very surprised if she didn't repeat work whether she gets a 4B or a 5 or even a 3

sod all I imagine. Friend sent her home edded kid to secondary at 12. The lad already had maths GCSE. He still had to sit in the lessons, do the work etc etc

It'll make no difference what so ever. The only benefit is to the primary school and secondary schools retest their pupils in the first few weeks in order to stream them.
SAT's are not about giving a good all round knowledge of maths and more about getting the kids to pass a particular test.

untrue ... as the school doesn't know what the content of the maths tests will be prior to opening them they have to teach everything

My dd got a 4a (was predicted 4b) on her SAT's last year.

She was coached a lot in extra maths lessons to achieve this (in school and in after-school classes run by the school).

She's now in secondary school and is targetted at a 5.5 (5b). In the literature that accompanied her target, it said that children are expected to make two sub-level progress by the end of the year - some will achieve more, some less, but 2 sub-levels is the aim. Hence the 5.5.

Unfortunately, although understandably IMHO, dd is below target.

The telling thing for me is that she is on, or actually above, target for every other subject except maths.

My personal opinion is that the SATS mark was not a true reflection of her maths ability (she has always strugged) and the inflated mark has meant that she's not on target in her first year at high school
I could be wrong but that is my gut instinct.

I asked the school weeks ago for information on how we can help dd to get back on target ...I've had no reply. I am trying to decide whether to contact the school now and ask what is going on, or wait for parents evening in March ...

What you're really asking is 'Do I want my kid to have extra maths lessons for free'?

Forget about the SATS. Do you want her to have extra maths lessons or not?

Hmm, there's a small flaw there though indigo. Obviously I can only speak for my dd and her lessons, but they weren't general maths lessons. They were tailored very very carefully to the SAT's papers.

My dd would have benefitted hugely from maths lessons. I so wish she'd have been offered those instead

Thanks everyone. Plonker that's what I'm a little worried about - she got a 3 in KS1 so if she's lifted to a 5, is she going to "under achieve" at KS3?

Indigobell, if they were normal maths lessons I'd jump at the chance, who wouldn't. But I suspect they will be more of what she has in maths at the moment -"you're letting the school down, you're not trying hard enough, last years yr 6's managed it" which I'm not prepared to subject her to in her own time unless there's a major benefit to her.

Might ring the Head at the secondary and ask his opinion on Monday.

If you go private at secondary level they are likely to ignore the sats and go on entrance test ability. Sats give state secondary schools a ball park idea of the childs ability. If streaming in maths is something they do then a 4b would I think be a lower middle stream.

secondary schools do their own assessments and use those. They don't pay much attention to primary SATs scores. Does your dd want to do the extra work?

I would love to know how schools know what is going to be on the SATs papers so they can tailor their teaching.
It's like saying GCSE teaching is tailored to the test or A level teaching or Degree lectures ...

Well, yes mrz. But from everything that I've been told, teaching to test at the age of 6/7 and 10/11, isn't particularly helpful.

Very different to teaching to test to pass GCSE's etc I would have thought?

How awful, bustle, does the school really take that approach with children?

They din't tailor their teaching to the SAT paper they tailor their teaching to the SAT based curriculum.
That is not a well rounded maths education, it doesn't allow for different chldren's learning.

My dd1 struggled with ks2 maths at one of the schools she was at purely because they tried to get her to do the curriculum they felt they had to follow for SAT's.
My dd1 took her maths gcse at the end of year 7 and has since taken her maths a level and extension papers and she is currently in year 10.

Where I live, level 5 would mean she would be in top set maths from the beginning of year 7. Which is also the set for french and German. So I am very very keen for my dd to get a five rather than a 4. Not a foregone conclusion by any means and if school offered her extra help to do so, I would bite its hand off.

I am currently running booster sessions for level 4 & level 5 children. I have identified areas of weakness or gaps in learning and I am teaching the children in order to strengthen their understanding of concepts, fill the gaps and teach them how to apply their knowledge they have already got. The sat papers are like a foreign language to the children as they are generally taught one area at a time and the wording is not always similar to everyday language we use. Please look at some recent old papers to see what I mean. You can not teach to test as we don't know what can come up, it assess the maths covered in the national curriculum levels 3-5. Maths is a hierarchical subject and if they have gaps this stops them being able to proceed, maybe your child's school has recognised that your child needs extra support to plug these gaps and has the potential (shown in her work) to achieve level 5 (which really she should be working at if she'd made good progress in the school- however there's always the issue of inflated ks1 levels - let's not even go there!). I'm sorry to here that your dd is getting such a negative message from her school about letting them down, in our school we talk purely about children doing their best and that's what counts - maybe that's where we're going wrong? As for the two sub level target that is a universal target for every year now, realistically the average is three over two years but the two takes into account some years they will consolidate and others they will come on leaps and bounds. Hths, personally if it helps plug some of the gaps in her understanding it will be worth it.

My daughter gained level 5a in sats for about 3 years running as the level 6 paper was defunkt. She was doing high school work for maths. When entering high school she was put into set 1 (top) for all subjects except pe and dance. Although she was in top set maths, in year 7 she was doing things that she had already done in primary school because it was the same workbook. After a while though, the childrens levels had gone up and they changed the workbook for a harder one. Now in year 8 she is level 8b or 8a (maths is 8a and so is history, german and science, the rest is 8b). Although she is 8a in maths, some of her friends in the same set are only just getting a 6. Don't know why.They are doing A level work at the moment i don't understand why. Not sure if your daughter would be put into top set in year 7 but don't worry. If she doesn't really like maths or like you said doesn't find it easy then set 2 would probably be better. My dd loves maths and does find it easy so i think that helps.

If the maths lessons are teaching to the test (ie repeating items from a curriculum which is also covered in ordinary lesson) then I wouldn't be keen.

If they are teaching more maths, inspiring the love of maths, and tackling logical problems in order to make her a better and more enthusiastic mathematician then I'd leap at it. Our school used to do a maths extension, which the one DC who did it really benefitted from. It's now more results oriented, and such inspiring departures from the syllabus are sadly o more.

My DS is doing another breakfast booster to improve his writing.

I am eternally grateful to his teachers for giving up their time to help my DS.

I am overawed with how much effort they're putting in to my DS . They go totally above and beyond what I'd expect.

Plonker my point is that they keep saying "teaching to the test" when in fact the teachers don't know what will be in the test so they are teaching the curriculum ... what some rubbish schools do is teach nothing just practise tests all year ... the label is misleading.

If she was level 3 at the end of KS1 then it is highly likey she is targetted a level 5 for her KS2 SATs.

It is impossible to know what will be in the tests exactly but there are certain types of questions that come up every year. For example a lot of children struggle with reading/interpreting graphs or scales and there are often quite a few questions that require these skills. It is likely that areas of 'weakness' have been identified and these will be covered during the booster sessions.

My DD is in the same situation - she is currently 4A and she is having extra lessons to help her achieve a level 5.

Aha your DD got a Level 3 at KS1 so the school need her to get a Level5 at Ks2 to demonstrate 2 whole levels progress which is what each school is expected to do- so that's where they are coming from schools are rated on value added as much as SATs results - next year the expectatlions will be Level6 for Level3s at KS1.
As for your DD I would impress upon her that she can only do as well as she can and not to fret about the SATs but the extra maths lessons will only be a benefit to her so I wouldn't worry about that - I do maths boosters with borderline 4/5s but only because we think they could do with a bit of extra help ie capable but not confident in most cases and I shan't be teaching tot he test just going over things they don't quite understand or are unsure of - all beneficial.
Secondary schools will retest within days of getting through the door and most take a bit of time to get the measure of the child anyway so setting will be based on their observations and not on what comes out of primary school - and any decent secondary will recognise where a child is at and move them forward not reteach what they already know as they end up with disruptive childern - they do have to teach to ability every school does.

sorry x posted with a few pepole there

At the high school my ds will be going to September, they set them from day 1 according to their SATs results. And they stay in those sets til Christmas. So in that case it would make a difference. Ring the Head of Year 7 on Monday. Or just say yes please- any focussed work is good. Particulary if she feels a bit unsure in Maths - getting a 5 will do wondrs for hr confidence.