How much difference would getting a 5 in maths sats make once dd gets to secondary?

[Bustle]

Dd has been offered extra maths lessons at school to help her achieve a 5 in her sats instead of the predicted 4b.

Obviously I appreciate the benefit for the school - but why difference will getting a 5 compared to a 4b make when she goes up to secondary? She doesn't find maths easy, will this make next year easier or will she be repeating work - or I suppose even worse put in a high group that she can't keep up with?

Answers on a postcard please

The school my children attended uses SAT results to allocate classes from day one as do others in the area

Bizarrely, my grammar school dd didn't get 3 level 5s and it has made absolutely no difference to her at all.

For ds, who's going to high school, it is VERY important that he gets level 5s.

next year the expectatlions will be Level6 for Level3s at KS1.

Where did you get that information, clutteredup?

mrz my degree is very much taught to the exam, They pretty much know what is going to come up. I have had 2 exams so far and have sat mocks for both exams and teaching was pretty much, what we need to revise for exam and what in general we should know. Both exams very much matched the mock exam.

Ooo let us know what they predict this time then as no other schools know! We can take an educated guess eg lots of rhombus' last year so probably won't appear again but really maths is so broad it is impossible to guess. Yes there are always similar style questions and that's what I was referring to when saying we try to help the children understand the language of sats. Most secondaries around here use ta and sat results to set, they use the raw score more than the level (available to them through raise). In the past they did give a paper in September but came under a lot criticism for doing this.

Indeed, and that's why mrz is right. Teaching to the test actually involves no teaching, just endless SAT questions. But to actually teach to the test, i.e. guess correctly what comes up, is impossible.

The rate of progress is not being changed next year - children attaining level 3 will not be expected to attain a level 6 at the end of KS2.

If taking the extra lessons would make her generally more confident in maths then I would encourage her to take them, OP. For me it's about boosting her confidence, not her actual result.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, we're not doing endless questions but maybe one or two at the end of a lesson in the plenary to show how the work we have covered will be assessed.

I bet it won't be long though before L3 have to be L6, unfortunately in our world nothing is ever good enough (eg the target of every child making two sub levels a year- it totally demoralises the child and the teacher- yes targets need to be challenging, but also realistic!).

schools in my ds's LEA do their own CATS with the children in Y6 on taster days and stream accordingly in Y7. I work within a different LEA - the High schools there don't use the primary SATs either.

My local high schools all do things differently - one uses Maths test scores to set, one doesn't set at all in Y7, one uses teacher assessments to set and one uses their own tests completed in September.

Dcs school stream from day 1 based on SATs and CATs taken on taster day

Hi Bustle:

I agree with clutteredup and others who've posted. Giving your DD extra one on one tuition in maths for KS2 SATs to achieve Level 5 is entirely about the school ensuring they meet their target. They will lose points if your DD gets a 4, which is below the predicted expectation (KS1 SATs score 3 = at least KS2 SATs score 5).

I don't think it can hurt. Practice is practice and maybe in the process they might come across areas where your DD does not quite understand and make things clearer.

In terms of secondary school, I have no direct experience, but my sister-in-law who has has 3 older children (2 now at Uni) says that they re-test at the beginning of Y7 anyway and that she found all her DCs went slightly down (which of course takes the pressure off the senior school). So my guess is that it would be unlikely they'd accidentally place your DD in a set in secondary school which was too demanding.

At the schools I have taught at the SATS inform initial setting which is reviewed after internal testing. A level 5 would usually ensure a top set place.

feenie as far as I have been told the new guidelines will be that 'G and T' -whatever that means- children will be expected to make greater than average progress - it was in a white paper but how far it has got I have to confess I don't know but it is the plan - whether it will be in place next year or will be changed again I don't know .

G and T children aren't usually level 3.

3 levels of progress will not be in place next year.

Agreed - level 3 isn't G and T at KS1. Level 4 is, and that would more easily translate to level 6 at the end of KS2.

There's no way 3 levels of progress would be expected next year, that's not right.

Feenie doesn't it depend on that school's cohort? And what if a child was 3a?

A level 3 is above expectations but not G&T IMHO

Expectations of progress are on a national level, iamnotinterested, and for a 3a expected progress would be a level 5.

Sorry - to clarify I think it means 'able' as well -
more info on this - I went to a AGAT meeting where they were discussing the white paper -I think it was back in September - one of the proposals was that the expectations of raising 2 levels should be seen as 'average expected' in the same way a 2b at KS1 or a 4b at KS2 would be. The point was made that therefore children acheiving 'above average' expectations should also equally be making 'above average' progress - sorry to throw the cat among the pigeons - it was a white paper so I don't know how far it got through but it was related to the introduction of the Level 6 papers in order to give children the 'opportunity' to be tested at a level 6 .
To be honest I don't know about you but all the information is hard to track down at the moment as it seems to change from week to week but it is a possibility that by next year they may be looking at this. HTH

Perhaps you shouldn't post such information unless it's a done deal then! Could have caused quite a stir next year if parents here had taken it as gospel, for example.

Mr Gove changes his mind ... almost daily

Just to add the mrz. I don't see how having extra maths lessons would be 'teaching to the test'. There is no way of telling what will come up on the test. I imagine extra lessons would cover weaker areas for certain children. What could be wrong with that?

Secondary schools will cover the same things that Y6 children have already done whatever. Just take the free lessons and be happy.

In terms of SATs. I have no problem with the tests themselves, just what they are used for.

At my Dss (grammar) school they set only after the first year once they have formed their own opinion of a child's ability.The nearest comprehensive sets after the first half term.