How much difference would getting a 5 in maths sats make once dd gets to secondary?

[Bustle]

Dd has been offered extra maths lessons at school to help her achieve a 5 in her sats instead of the predicted 4b.

Obviously I appreciate the benefit for the school - but why difference will getting a 5 compared to a 4b make when she goes up to secondary? She doesn't find maths easy, will this make next year easier or will she be repeating work - or I suppose even worse put in a high group that she can't keep up with?

Answers on a postcard please

Always good to hear Secondary schools don't bother to listen the 7 years of work already done.

Bustle, if you dd got a level 3 in KS1, then expected progress for her would to be to get a level 5 at the end of KS2 (2 levels progress). This will be why the school has chosen her for 1:1 tuition. If she gets less than a level 5, then it will make their value added look bad.

I am still here by the way, lurking in the background!

My DCs state secondary school puts them in Maths sets from the start in Y7, presumably using Sats levels, TA and Raw score. So yes, for this school her results would make a difference. There is some adjustment as time goes on, as indeed there is every term or so.

Other subjects they test themselves. English was about halfterm, and science sets happened just this week. French will be next at Easter

In my DCs primary they did a lot of coaching one year, because they suddenly realised that their percentages were about to go down. I would ask them exactly what is going to go on in these sessions and then decide if they are likely to be of value to your DD.
Secondary Maths is quite different, and some children do much better when they get there, as it is less about going over the same old things (which a mathematician wouldn't really see as Maths).

If the school are expecting to raise OPs DD two sub-levels (from level 4bc to 5c) in a couple of months, it makes me wonder what they have been doing for the last 3 and a half years when she moved presumably from 3c to 4b (4 levels).

Mummtime,

How is Secondary Maths quite different? A rather odd statement when you consider the first year or two of secondary school is spent going over most of what children have done in Y6. Very few 'new' topics are introduced until Y9/10.

When a new topic is introduced a huge amount of time is spent going over it. There is nothing wrong with this of course, but it doesn't differ from Primary as you seem to think.

There are plenty of investigations which occur in all Primary years.

My DD, in English, stuck at 4b for about 2 years, and was still there at this time in Y6, with a concerted effort from her Y6 teacher. me and herself, somthing suddenly clicked, her TA was 5B, test scores 5A. She is currently on level 5A in Y7.

I appreciate the OP is talking about Maths, but sometimes perhaps sometimes a boost is needed to make the final connnection with the accumulated knowledge of the last couple of years.

An like I said up post, in DDS school they were in sets from Day 1 for Maths, so it would have made a difference.

Like I said,

Well in my experience of two DCs going through secondary they do start a lot of new topics in the first two years of secondary, and are taught in a different way. Both my children have blossomed at secondary Maths, having been demotivated at primary. My dd who says she can't do Maths, quite likes Algebra for example (year 8).
I still feel sad that they don't get the chance to learn by exploring which I did at primary school in the dark ages, I still remember the lessons on learning about pi we did in year 6 equivalent.

Your daughter should have been taught algebra in primary and it most definitely should be learning by exploring

Secondary maths should build on what children have been taught in primary (it should be the same but getting progressively more "difficult"/"complex" not different - it's the same curriculum just using bigger numbers

In my experience children like to attend booster classes cos they get food & pop & more attention!! Why not give it a go?

Migod, in some ways it is good that secondary schools do form their own opinions - I know a girl who was below average on her maths at Y^ but placed in top set in Y8 cos she had attained a 6b in Y7. I very mu7ch doubt the primary school could have envisaged that.

But back to the post - if they set straight away I would envisage 4a upwards being the top set unless you are in a super clever year group.

What I meant feenie was is 3a at KS1 vastly different from 4c?

I think it is, actually! But a 3a is edging towards more than able, aswell.

But a child may in theory be only one mark away from being a 4c.

"if they set straight away I would envisage 4a upwards being the top set unless you are in a super clever year group."

What is your definition of top set?

In DS year 6, they are expecting at least a third of them to get level 5s. LAst year it was 38%. Given that local secondary has a six from intake, not all of the 5s will make the "top" group.

"secondary schools do their own assessments and use those. They don't pay much attention to primary SATs scores"

At DD's secondary school they used the SATS marks to put the children into sets for maths. They have assessments and tests all the time to keep an eye on their progress.

"In DS year 6, they are expecting at least a third of them to get level 5s. LAst year it was 38%. Given that local secondary has a six from intake, not all of the 5s will make the "top" group."

DCs ordinary comp have an intake of 190, my DD who got 1% off a 5A didn't even make top class, although she was moved up in yr8.

A 4a would be nearer the 4 class which is a cross over class between the top and middle band.

"I would envisage 4a upwards being the top set unless you are in a super clever year group."

Not necessarily. Over 60% of DD's class got level 5 in maths. The other primary schools in this area are pretty good and I expect there are a large number of year 7s at DD's school who also acheived level 5 in maths. So at DD's school I expect the level 5 children will be in the top sets and the 4as in the next one.

dd got level 5 maths. went on to get Grade C Gcse higher. So it meant fuck all as prediction was an A right through secondary.

That's what I'm worried about ChewingGum. Maths doesn't come easily to DD. I might need to get a tutor for her when the time comes.

I would say not to worry too uch about the SAT grade now in year 6.

Let her go off to the secondary. They wil most likely stream her. Then you will get more of an indication of her real level. It became quite apparent with DD that Maths was not her strong subject either. She was streamed into the top group and remained there throughout but was certainly struggling to keep up with the others who were clearly going to get A grades.

You can always get a tutor once she is on the gcse route, i.e 14/15 years old.

Also at that age if you were not going to use a tutor then maybe get online resources. We used conquermaths.com for one of ours and he sailed through gcse maths using it. DD was just not interested!!

Either way, the SAT result was due to her being taught SATs maths papers over and over again in year 6, so although a pleasing result, it was most dfinitely not an honest picture of her maths skills, but looked grand for the school.

You guys know a lot about SAT results at your own schools. How do you know so much, are the results for the entire year supplied with your own child's results or did you look them up somewhere?