How long can you use the age compared to classmates as an excuse?

[Fusegettingshorter]

Please don't tell me for the duration of the school career, as I may have to intervene with who my dc is friends with, as the parents are driving me mad.

My ds' birthday is March, nice and easy smack bang in the middle of the year.

He is in a class of 14 - 1 child is August of year above and held back a year, 2 children are in the autumn term, 4 children are in the spring term, 5 children are in the summer term, 2 children are in the summer holidays, 1 child is december of the year below and is a year ahead of themselves.

My ds' friends are the eldest, the autumn term birthdays, and 3 of the summer term.

Now his 3 friends in summer term parents bitterly complained that the younger child was put into the class, as it was unfair on their less developed children, who are struggling as they are summer born. But really missed the point that this child although winter born is still 6 months younger than their children.

This has been the case since they started reception. We are now in year 2, and every conversation it results in 'it's because they are up to a year younger than other children in their class'. I've now turned it into a game of bingo and play mental bets with myself as to how long it'll be until it's said. Sometimes I think the conversation will finish without it being said, and just when I feel disappointed not to have scored bingo, the parent will say it.

How many years will this go on for?

I'm giving it until the end of this year, then they are in the juniors and if the parents say it then, I'm not interacting with these parents at all, and all friendship will remain within the playground.

Your school must be private I am guessing with the holding back a year etc??
At our state primary I think [with a fair few exceptions] it is noticeable for a while. The 'top' literacy group is dominated by Autumn borns [year 2]. The Nativity main speaking parts were 2 Septembers [I notice these things!].
I think in the early years being more developed can be a huge advantage. I notice a big advantage especially with the older girls who seem miles ahead where some summer boys seem to struggle. I hope it all evens out.
On a personal note though- I was a late summer baby who dilly day dreamed first couple of years and my maths suffered for years...... never caught up as dreamt through all the basics..

A year, I think. Maybe two.

Yes it is independent.

Re groups etc, the top literacy group (group of 4) is my ds, and the child from the year below, and the 2 summer holidays, the top maths group (of 6) is same four plus one from spring, and one from autumn.

Sports day last year was won by the summer kids (not the 3 who are complaining btw!)

It may just be these parents, who can't accept their kids weaknesses, so will just blame the age factor for everything and anything.

I do think it is quite possible that I was always destined to be crap at maths!!
My ds a Spring boy and seems to be doing fine. Those Autumn girls though- frighteningly ahead in writing! Girl thing and age thing combined maybe...

It would drive me nuts tbh!

Does it matter? Really?

Anyway my advice would not be to have a summer born baby or you may well understand what these parents are going on about.

Now if you wanted to end the friendship with the parents because you're bored witless by the conversation...

I don't really think it is any excuse, lets face it in any class full of children the youngest could possibly be nearly a year younger than the oldest, they will do as well as they will do no matter what year they are in.

Dd was pretty advanced as a small child, September birthday, for the want of 18 days she would have been in the year above. I was born in April and was always top of the class. I can't see what difference it makes really, if dd was in the year above would she be more or less intelligent? I think not.

weeeell, my reception class son is a March baby but thanks to the foibles of the small class size (also independent) he is the youngest in the class. All but one of his class mates are already 5. I think it shows, I am surprised how much tbh.

I think it does show in the early years,
My ds definitely 'sillier' than some in Reception and year 1. Seeming a bit more mature in year 2. Maybe just immature and silly but do think development and maturity an issue when R, yr1 and yr 2.

If it doesnt matter that much to you, why are you so knowledgeable about the relative ages and abilities of all the children in the class?

I think it makes a massive difference tbh and continues to do so throughout their school career.

I used to teach secondary school English and when I had the lower sets there was a high proportion of those younger in the year group, particularly the boys.

It is highly relevant to their schooling and taken into account in all medical/psychological investigations too.

A little bit of sympathy for those whose dcs have to "compete" with children so much older than they are might be in order. It is not pleasant to have to "fast forward" a child. It feels like stealing a bit of their childhood.

If they are just really boring and irritating friends then that is another matter entirely though

I think it really matters in the first couple of years. My dd is an autumn girl in Y1, and the gap between her and the summer children, particularly the boys, is very marked. She is ferociously competitive and will be very miffed when they start catching her up

The dad of one of the summer girls told me the teacher said it pretty much takes them the whole of primary to iron out the difference. I don't know enough to have an opinion on that, but I'm sure that your relative position in those early years has a lasting impact on your self-esteem, attitude to education etc. Whether or not that makes it ok for the parents to constantly harp on about it is another matter. I can't see that it helps the dc, though.

I'm "knowledgable" on it, because due to the class size it is obvious who's in what group, and also when everyone's birthday is.

Ok I may just need to distance myself from these mothers, because every conversation it's raised "are you going to the party next week?" "yes, but it's 2 hours of play, and x is a whole year younger than others in the class". It's literally like that.

I do think it may turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy, because it is said in front of the children, and I the child has said to me 'I won't be able to do that as I'm a whole year younger than x.' And I've said to the child of course you can do it there are 4 year olds doing this, and they say oh yeah and get on and do it with no hesitation.

Age is going to be a powerful factor, of course it is, but it's only one factor amongst many. Things like natural ability, parental input, whether they click with the teacher - even the friends they make in class are going to have a big effect on how they perform at school.

In a smaller class then age differences are going to be less of a smooth 'continuum' than they are in a bigger one, so maybe that's why some of the parents are more hung up on it.

Fusegettingshorter I was just about to pose a very similar question.

My DS's birthday is late November and so the maximum age difference is less than 9 months between him and the youngest child in the class.

My DS attended school nursery for 6 weeks. I was told at the end of last year that he was way behind the other children in terms of EYFS markers and that this was worrying due to him being an older child. When he left in July he couldn't read or write his name. He is now doing well and I have some parents commenting on his reading books and that he is doing well because he is an older child.

One child concerned has a birthday at the start of March less than 4 months difference and was in the school nursery/a learning environment for over a year. The mother of this child is very interested in comparing our children with each other and the age difference. I understand that we all have worries and concerns about our children. I am just glad my child is happy and settling in well.

In a class of 14, I would have thought that the children received a lot of intensive support. Does age make a difference and can support counteract this? I agree it seems to be a self fulfilling prophecy in a lot of cases.

I wasted time being worried about how he would fare in school. I have no idea what groups his is in and how this compares to his classmates - maybe I will find out at Easter when we have parents evening.

I don't really understand what difference it makes when a child's birthday is. My dd is very bright (g and t and all that rubbish) and her birthday is 29 August and she has always been way past her peers. My birthday is August too and i was very ahead at school. I was worried at the beginning when dd started school as she was only just 4 and some were 5 in the first week of starting school. But the reception teacher said it doesn't usually matter. To be honest, the ones who were older with my dd at school were the less bright ones. Now dd is 12 and she is the youngest in year 8 but is in all top set for lessons and her "best" friends are all already 13.

This really is one of the disadvantages of very small classes!

For what it's worth, my dd and her cousin are both in year 11 but nearly a year apart in age. And the difference in maturity between them is really noticeable even at 15. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear!

dd is second youngest of 24, some are 10mths older than she is, and tbh,the only way it shows is in the height difference.

I think it's safer to call it "every child develops differently and at their own pace" rather than an "excuse", but then, as the mother of the brightest kid in the class, the age is something that concerns me less than the fact that some of the children in dd's class are enormous compared to her.

Also, FWIW, the 2 oldest in the class,both girls and both older than the youngest in the next year up (IYSWIM)seemlike square pegs in round holes at times, nothing to do with academic achievement, it's just that they are so obviously much older. So the agething cuts both ways.

I think the age differences (both older and younger) show more in levels of maturity.

I suppose it's natural for parents who do have concerns to try and find reasonable explanations for those concerns,but I do agree it's become almost a mantra to explain away everything. (which of course does a great disservice to children who really are a bit slower due to being much younger)

The bit from the OP about children not being able to cope with a party because of being younger is bonkers though. Surely, at that age parties are all about not being able to cope and getting all hyper and hysterical?

"I think it makes a massive difference tbh and continues to do so throughout their school career."

I don't. DD is July born and her best friend was born at the end of August. They both got level 5 in their KS2 SATS and are in the top sets for everything in year 7 at high school.

I think it depends entirely on the child.

I do agree as well, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy in some ways...dd's best friend's mum for example, has chosen to keep her brother in nursery until next September, even though he could have gone this time around. When I look at how he plays,how he interacts, his tantrums etc I think "oh yes, he's definitely not ready for school,he'ssuch a baby still". But it begs the question,is he "such a baby still" because he is or because he's been kept at nursery where he is with much younger children all day and because effectively his mother has chosen to keep him a "baby". His birthday is February incidentally.

Studies indicate that the effect can last pretty much the whole school career, e.g. fewer August born children, esp boys go to university.

However, that a parent goes on about it on a regular basis is just irritating. Just tell her to shut up. Or shout bingo!, maybe they'll get the hint then?

DS autumn born bottom of class

DD spring born too of class

DS best friend summer born top of class but v immature and kept so by his parents (now year 8 and very babied)

DDs best friend (sibling of DS' best friend above) spring born top of class and v mature

Lots of factors play a part IMO not just when they are born

OP perhaps you should suggest their DCs be kept back a year if they are so concerned. Would shut them up and end friendship. Two birds...one stone

I don't think it matters much with bright children, so if you have a bright child you will find it hard to believe in age as a factor. Nor with naturally very confident children.

I was a bright child and the youngest by far in my class, but well ahead of the rest; the only difference, I suppose, is that with children my own age I would have been even further ahead. .

A child of average ability, like ds, won't have anything to compensate for being younger, so it will show in a totally different way- and if they then lose confidence, as ds has, because they can see that they can't do the same thing as other children, then that can put them even further behind.

Statistically, I believe that sept-dec children are more likely to be successful sportsmen, go to uni and grammar school. Obviously not true of individuals, but yes they do have a point.

My sister, brother and I were born 13 months apart. Sister had July birthday, brother August, me September. We all went onto university and got good degrees and jobs but i definitely had far more confidence in my academic ability from a very young age. I saw it almost as my right to be the top of the class and also the tallest, the organiser etc, whereas my siblings generally came in at around 20th in class and were more inclined to follow than lead .
It took my brother and sister until 6th form before the penny dropped that they were just as bright if not more so than their Autumn born friends.
Many years on I'm still the one who leads within the family so I'm not sure how much is personality and how much influenced by those very early years.