How long can you use the age compared to classmates as an excuse?

[Fusegettingshorter]

Please don't tell me for the duration of the school career, as I may have to intervene with who my dc is friends with, as the parents are driving me mad.

My ds' birthday is March, nice and easy smack bang in the middle of the year.

He is in a class of 14 - 1 child is August of year above and held back a year, 2 children are in the autumn term, 4 children are in the spring term, 5 children are in the summer term, 2 children are in the summer holidays, 1 child is december of the year below and is a year ahead of themselves.

My ds' friends are the eldest, the autumn term birthdays, and 3 of the summer term.

Now his 3 friends in summer term parents bitterly complained that the younger child was put into the class, as it was unfair on their less developed children, who are struggling as they are summer born. But really missed the point that this child although winter born is still 6 months younger than their children.

This has been the case since they started reception. We are now in year 2, and every conversation it results in 'it's because they are up to a year younger than other children in their class'. I've now turned it into a game of bingo and play mental bets with myself as to how long it'll be until it's said. Sometimes I think the conversation will finish without it being said, and just when I feel disappointed not to have scored bingo, the parent will say it.

How many years will this go on for?

I'm giving it until the end of this year, then they are in the juniors and if the parents say it then, I'm not interacting with these parents at all, and all friendship will remain within the playground.

Fanty - where does confidence come from? From successful experience and positive feedback (adult and peer group). And if a very young in year group child doesn't get that positive experience and feedback early on, then it can rapidly become a downward spiral, with confidence and self-esteem being severely dented.

Six and a bit years ago a friend of mine had her first baby (a boy) by elective caesarean on 30th August. AT the time I suggested she might want to hang on a couple of days, but she laughed me off, as her mother had already booked a flight to come and see them after the birth.

When I saw my friend recently she told me she wished she'd listened to me, and even hinted that I should have tried harder to persuade her!

learnandsay
We all can think of the odd exception but the general position is that if you are the youngest you are less likely to get picked for the sports teams etc. The research deals with general trends rather than specific individuals.

There are always exceptions
Gareth Edwards - one of the greatest rugby players of all time is 5'8"
Lester Piggott - one of the greatest jockeys of all time is 5'7"

However, that doesn't alter the fact that in general rugby players are much bigger than jockeys.

In the same way the odd exceptional younger player doesn't alter the fact that most school teams mainly comprise the older children in the year group.

Mellow - I agree the mums mentioned in the OPs school seem to be taking it all too far.
I think parents of summer borns do have to work harder at supporting and building their children's confidence in the early years, and probably end up a bit 'broken record' about the whole thing.

I think there is a lot to be said for children 'finding themselves and their strengths' once they get to senior school. I know 'young' boys who have really blossomed in Year 7, and have sort of 'reinvented' themselves once they leave behind the primary friends who had typecast them as the 'babies' of the year.

Not all young children are the smallest and shortest in their years. Different children grow at different rates. I think there's too much generalisation going on here. I never ever generalise, well in general I don't.

Well OP unless you are saying that the summer born dc are less mature entirely by coincidence, then their parents have a point no?

And yes, I do think parents of summer born babies should keep pointing it out. For one thing it stops teachers and other parents underestimating their abilities.

I feel for you OP - I have a friend with a summer born child and it seems to have become some sort of mantra that the family churn out at every given opportunity. Outwardly you smile and nod politely, inside you scream....

And as you say, the child starts believing they can't achieve as much, until you point out someone two years younger than them doing xyz perfectly well. Its kind of like not letting the baby of the family grow up, pigeon-holing them as the baby of the group.

Well from where I'm sitting gladbags with my summer born 12 year olds outperforming the vast majority of their older peers, I'm very very glad I kept banging on and on.

If it snnoyed other parents and teachers so what?

I don't understand the parents who go on about it (in the OP) - they sound a bit dull. But I must admit that I discounted how much being a summer born would affect my DS until I saw him lining up for Reception and realised how tiny he was compared to the other boys in his class. The height difference is already a bit less marked now that he is Year One. He struggled with reading and with his confidence. I do find that I need to be quite vigilant about his self-image as he gets so much negative feedback from his peers - 'You can't play 'it' with us because you're too slow' for example - whereas he's super-fast compared to kids in the year below who are just two months younger than him. Same with reading. He's very competitive so it's a matter of finding a balance to keep up his confidence and his belief that he will get there and to keep using the negative feedback to spur him on rather than defeat him. Then one day he'll wipe the floor with the lot of them catch up and his age won't matter. I can already see it starting to happen.

wordfactory it is one thing pointing it out to teachers but at the same time the DCs hear parents saying "oh so and so is summer born child and therefore can't be expected to do......" This reinforces the inability to the DC concerned and can become a self-fulfilling prophecy especially when they get older. I have heard a 10 year old DCs use it an excuse. My answer if they had been mine would be, "the examiner for your GCSEs etc won't know your age, so lets see what can we do to help you now."
Did you also mean that by reminding teachers it would mean that they didn't overestimate their abilities rather than underestimate? Either way I would hope that teachers based predictions, expectations on the individual rather than on their date of birth.
I sympathise with you OP.

word factory, I'm not saying it isn't important, and that teachers need to be aware of it, just that saying it as a negative thing in front of the child, can't be helpful.

Surely teachers are very aware of the age differences anyway, especially in the earlier years?

How much they adjust or allow for this will vary though I guess.

I do think the time of the year is important when the children are young but I think this can be compounded if they have or have not older siblings. ie oldest child in family born in August will IME usually be less developed at 5 compared to a September born child with an older sibling. Following this logic if a mid year born child has an older sibling I think that helps to brigde the gap on the earlier born class mates who don't have older siblings.

I think all this summer born crap is a red herring.

I'm an August baby, so is my sister, my nephew, my dad and my cousin. All of us are crap at some stuff, good at others and have come out alright in the end.

They have to draw the line somewhere.

Re: birth month and sports ability.

Here is the current squad who play football for England.

Sep - Dec births: 9
Jan - Apr births: 8
May - Aug births: 7

So, despite what Malcolm Gladwell says, it does not seem to hamper our national sportsmen :)

Teachers and TAs are of course aware of birth month (or should be) but they have their baselines etc
And when other pupils in the class can do x or y, they do tend to set a standard.

I found gentle but insistent reminders that my DC were doing very well indeed considering their age was hugely helpful in ensuring that staff and other parents didn't make any assumptions as to their raw ability.

And the proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say. They now sit alongside the most able students quite happily so I figure I got it right.

cumbria81 - yes, and of course your personal family sample size of 4 is statistically significant isn't it...

The research all shows that summer borns do worse in academia.
The reasons are varied.

There was no wat in high heaven I was going to let my own summer borns fall into this pattern.

My twin and I were an academic year younger than our peers (4th birthday in reception) and my sisters were summer borns. My parents never made a link between age and ability and so we didn't either. My sisters and I did well academically and my brother has no qualifications. We are all happy and productive adults.

Initially, I felt under pressure for my DS to catch up to his class as he was 'one of the older ones'. He was a little behind but has caught up and I have no concerns now and so don't worry about it. He does well because of the stuff we do at home and his own skills not because of his age.

wordfactory "I found gentle but insistent reminders that my DC were doing very well indeed considering their age was hugely helpful in ensuring that staff and other parents didn't make any assumptions as to their raw ability."

When you say it was hugely helpful, what would you say happened as a result of the reminders?

there is still statistically a difference at the end of Y11

Was at school with a girl who was almost a year younger than most of us. Would say that until about age 17 she was noticeably smaller, younger looking, everything. I don't think they are being OTT.

But if they annoy you this much over something that they think is a big deal, and you think is just an excuse, then you probably are not destined to be good friends...

okay so it makes a difference but nobody needs to carry on about it constantly. yanbu to that part of OP's story. They sound like odious & very competitive people who constantly compare.

DS1 has a late-autumn birthday which makes him, at most events, the very youngest in his two year age range group in his chosen sport, btw; I told him this season is just for experience & next year he can try his hardest. We don't expect any special favours, and do talk about some lads with even "younger" birthdays who have trumped the rest of the field, nonetheless.

Bobbin I think it helped to keep everyone's opinions open as to my DC's abilities.
The teachers didn't think they were of average or below average ability just because of their attainment levels and adjusted accordingly. Instead they were alive to the fact that DC were of high ability for their age and thus had an entirely different attitude towards them.

I really did think it mattered. And I would encourage any parent to do the same.

I have had so many teachers tell me how unusual their academic trajectory has been. I'm not convinced it need be that unusual. Common sense tells me many summer borns are underperforming because everyone thinks that is their natural level.

I don't think teachers keep each child's particular circumstances at the top of their minds all the time - they have a lot to do. I do periodically remind my DD's class teacher that DD's first language is English, not French, and that DD is a November baby (the intake is 1 January to 31 December in France) and that she therefore at a double disadvantage. There are, of course, other children in her class whose first language is not French, and there are children who are younger than she is, and I don't make a big thing of it, but sometimes it can get a bit frustrating when she is compared to Francophone children in her French class who are 10 months older than she is and can barely utter a word of English.

We can all quote anecdotal evidence that being a summer born doesn't matter. But the research clearly shows that it DOES.