How long can you use the age compared to classmates as an excuse?

[Fusegettingshorter]

Please don't tell me for the duration of the school career, as I may have to intervene with who my dc is friends with, as the parents are driving me mad.

My ds' birthday is March, nice and easy smack bang in the middle of the year.

He is in a class of 14 - 1 child is August of year above and held back a year, 2 children are in the autumn term, 4 children are in the spring term, 5 children are in the summer term, 2 children are in the summer holidays, 1 child is december of the year below and is a year ahead of themselves.

My ds' friends are the eldest, the autumn term birthdays, and 3 of the summer term.

Now his 3 friends in summer term parents bitterly complained that the younger child was put into the class, as it was unfair on their less developed children, who are struggling as they are summer born. But really missed the point that this child although winter born is still 6 months younger than their children.

This has been the case since they started reception. We are now in year 2, and every conversation it results in 'it's because they are up to a year younger than other children in their class'. I've now turned it into a game of bingo and play mental bets with myself as to how long it'll be until it's said. Sometimes I think the conversation will finish without it being said, and just when I feel disappointed not to have scored bingo, the parent will say it.

How many years will this go on for?

I'm giving it until the end of this year, then they are in the juniors and if the parents say it then, I'm not interacting with these parents at all, and all friendship will remain within the playground.

Pandam - I agree! And part of me is not-very-secretly quite pleased that while DD has a disadvantage in the French system by being a November-born, it actually means that she is a year ahead of the year she would be in in the UK system (currently in Y3 equivalent whereas she would be in Y2 in England) and that if ever she moves system she can "repeat" a year and be an Autumn-born and will have a double advantage!

Bonsoir I agree.

I always assumed that whilst DC's teachers were extremely good at their jobs they couldn't be expected to have in mind my DCs birth dates etc at all times. Nor could they be expected to follow my agenda for them at all times.

So I gave gentle frequent reminders.

I also gently reminded other parents as I didn't wnat them making assumptions either which they may pass on to their own DC and which in turn may be passed on to mine.

However many parents of September term babies are attached to the view that their DC are more able and don't want to factor in age...which affects expectations and percolates to school.

We had our school nativity today and it was noticeable that the main parts went to the children who are the eldest in the year (again). They did a lovely job but it did underline the issue a bit.

It makes sense that if two 4 YO children start reception and one has a birthday straight away there could well be a difference in ability, maturity and progress.

wordfactory in what circumstance do you offer gentle reminders to other parents? In my own experience teachers talk about the progress made by my child towards EYFS targets. They do not compare him to anybody else - other parents do though.

But the research equally shows that it doesn't matter for EVERY child. It sounds like a cop out when every parent of a summer born child in a group just keeps saying "Oh it's because of their age". What OP is describing is an almost self-defeatist attitude.

This always drives me bonkers. I was always the youngest child in my year. My birthday is on the cut off day. I was always, always top for maths and language at school, except for one year when I was second. Me and a boy who was always right behind me had identical marks all year, so they thought it fairer to swap the places one year. I was dux of primary school and did equally well at high school.
Just ignore them. They are just insecure about their dcs average ability.

Thanks for all the posts - very insightful, and good to get round perspective.

Reading the thread, has made me think what it is that annoys me so much about these parents - yes must distance myself, why can't my ds adore the child of the mother who I think is fabulous and would love to spend all day drinking coffee with - it's that they don't want their children to grow up, and like the three of them together as it keeps them all young, like the person who said about the child staying in nursery and staying back.

Conversations can be like this:

"You will cut up his dinner for him won't you, remember he's a year younger than the other children in the class, and not like your child". We wait for mother to leave, I put dinner in front of them, and say to child would you like some help, he hesitates, looks at my dc eating, and says no thank you, then promptly cuts up his own dinner with no hinderance.

"Well done x for scoring the goal", "yes he scored that goal depsite being a year younger than the other children in the class"

"Ooh you're a shepherd fantastic", "yes because he's a year younger than the other children in the class".

No they are not their birthdays are May-June - max 10 months, and the majority of the class are within 3-4 months of each other either way.

One of the high ability DC in my DD's old school was the very youngest in the class-end of August born-at maths,reading and writing. My DD is September and was the weakest and oldest at that ability table.

She was quite good at sports as well.

Fusegettingshorter I will join you in wishing my child was friends with the parents I would like to be friendly with.

wordfactory not being sarcastic. I find parents living vicariously through and boastful of their DC to be very difficult.

eggrules when I would give parents gentle reminders was when they might say their DC was on x or y reading book. I would always say that was fantastic and I hoped my DC would be on that book when they were that age.

What I wanted to prevent was for everyone to assume that my DC's attainment represented their ability because all the research shows that that impacts upon later achievement. I'm sure the research explains it beteer than I could, but it seems to be when everyone in a class (teachers, TAs, pupils and parents) consider Boy A to be the clever one and Boy B to be less than clever it there is a self fullfilling prophesy.
But if you don't buy into that prophesy and you ensure that others don't either, the outcomes can be very different.

And all I can say is that my DC's bucked the trend. So I figure I did somehtig right.

As I say, the trajectory for my DC was quite remarkable. And I'm convinced that the single most important thing I did was to keep reminding everyone about their age.

Wordfactory - that sound fine and reasonable. Why would they talk about which book their DC was on though? I don't have any idea which group my DS is in and which ones are the more able children.

We have had very different experiences. The same nursery parents that were smug in their children's writing abilities last are now saying ' oh well there is a massive age difference'. In some cases this is 10 weeks and that can't make that much of a difference. I could say that their child had a whole extra year of nursery school.

If your 'DC bucked the trend' and if you were aware 'that summer borns do worse in academia' and you were in no way 'going to let my own summer borns fall into this pattern' YOU had a massive impact on your DC.

I don't know why some parents do these things.
Perhaps if my own DC had been September babies and seemed incredibly able I would have wanted to put it down to high ability and not age.
Probably I would.

As it is perhaps I did have a massive impact on the outcome for my DC. Thank you for saying that. I really really would encourage other parenst of summer borns to do the same. Maybe it will meake them unpopular with people like the op, but that's a small price to pay no?

My twins were born on the 31st august and two months premature, initially in reception they were noticably behind and immature and their teacher did point this out however by the end of yr one they had caught up and came out with level 3s at sats in yr 2 and level 5s by yr 6! Theyre 15 now and in their final yr doing their GCSEs they sat their maths gcse last yr in yr 10 and one came out with a B and the other a C, one of the boys is estimated several As and A* but both of them expected to pass all their GCSEs. My other daughter is December born and again very bright doing really well yet my little girl whos April born is very behind and very immature. I just think each child is different and initially when they were born could have some effect but not when theyre older

I think parental involvement makes a massive difference and words you seem to have a very supportive attitude.

I'm not sure you would be unpopular the OP (not for me to say I guess), as her Y2 LO was born at the mid point for the academic year. My DS has strengths and weaknesses. I do try not to compare him but other parents are fixated on tracking their child's progress against other children. It does bug me a little when people do this. If they make a unsolicited comment about my child doing well at x because of his age I take no notice because I know it is down to the support he receives (in his case).

unless you are comparing a child 5 1st September with one 4 on 31st August then there isn't a year between them. Well your 'DC is Summer born and mine is Spring' amounts to 15 weeks, which doesn't make a difference inho.

Words

I don't think I would annoy you or you me on this in real life, because I would never say to another parent my ds is on x reading level, or to another child oh you are on x reading level, my ds is on y.

But using one of the examples that I gave above re football goal. A "normal/appropriate" response to the statement from me "Well done x for scoring the goal", would be "yes fantastic shot" from the other parent, age doesn't need to be mentioned.

One of (August-born) DS2's strengths is drama. He was entered into a music/drama festival in early July, and since the classes were based on age at the time of the festival he was entered into 'Under 9' whereas all his classmates had to enter 'Under 10' as they had already had their 9th birthdays.
Unsuprisingly (as he was one of the older ones, but is also good at it) he came top in that age-group competition, and won a medal. We were obviously delighted, as he rarely wins anything/ gets any recognition.

Afterwards the steward, rather embarrassed, came up to us and checked DS's birthdate as apparently three parents from the year below had complained that it 'wasn't fair' that DS competed in the same group as their children

August born Dh was held back a year (did the last year of prep school twice) as were a couple of other July/August born boys so I guess there must still have been a gap, although MIL says it was social/developmental rather than academic. I do think the ability to hold back/put up a year is one of the benefits of the private system. I know the state system probably cant cope with all these demands, but I think it's a bit of a shame because it does seem that some children really could do with a bit more time.

ps but I agree with the OP that it's annoying when parents keep going on about it- if you think your child's struggling due to age, talk to the head about keeping them back. Otherwise, zip it

OP YABU and a bit thick
I am so sick of reading the dumb comments' oh no it doesn't make a difference .My august born is in the top set for everything'
It is so arrogant to believe that that if something doesn't apply to your child, then it doesn't exist.
There's heaps of resesach to show that summerborns fare worse throughout their school career than older ones.At the beginning of Y2 the oldest child is 17% older than the youngest.that is massive! The fact that there is a slightly younger whizzkid in the class makes no difference to this
All my DC are DEc to May so I have no personal axe to grind on this

realife I think that's poor advice actually.

Most summer borns don't need to be held back a year, they just need their special circumstances taken into account.
Once everyon eis on board with that it can work out exceptionally well as my own august born, prem DC can attest.

And spider I agree it is annoying.

We all know someone who smoked and lived to eighty but that doesn't mean we should disregard the evidence that smoking is bad for ones health.

Actually the DSs school has actually done something rather sensible in sport to address the issue. They have mixed year teams e.g. 8/9, 9/10, 10/11 and it means that everyone can find their own level for their approximate age. DS had his confidence boosted when he discovered that he was OK at football when playing in a team with the boys in the school year below - most of whom were only a few months younger than him. The boys in his own class are ALL born between Sept-Feb, so perhaps the issue is particularly acute for him?

Whippet that makes so much sense. Simple but very effective.

Our school have done similar for younger dcs here by putting late birthdays in year above with early birthdays in year below when they have to make up a composite. It works very well on the confidence front from what I can see. Once again, simple but very effective.

Q How long can you use the age compared to classmates as an excuse? In this example it should never have been used - 3 to 4 months is too little a difference to matter in Y2 (or maybe ever). There may well be a difference between the oldest and youngest children - however most will fall into an average grouping.

spiderpig8 that is harsh and unnecessary, this isn't AIBU . In the OPs case her DC was born in the middle of the year and so there is very little difference between the children borne in the Summer Term and her child. Reading her posts, the difference is 3 to 4 months either side and not a whole year. In this circumstance, I agree it is inappropriate for parents to complain about an age gap when responding to a complement. In addition the OP is not comparing the children and instead treating them as equals and is prepared to provide additional support as required. My DC can go for tea anytime.

I went to school an entire year younger than my classmates and think my DS was ready for school a year early too. I think parents and teachers should be able to hold back or move up a year. Alternatively mixed year classes or groups may be helpful. There will always be some parents that will want their DC in what they perceive to be the top group.